It is unfortunate that a select few continue with the insults and derision, in virutally every thread. Meaningful conversation is a near impossibility in such circumstances. So until such things stop, I'd just be wasting my time over there and will thus refrain from participating. Good luck to you.
Looks like the more respectable folks at the PI blog may have finally had enough of the slights and mudslinging by a couple of their members. Maybe we'll finally see a change in attitude over there so civil discussion is actually possible. I expect kicking and screaming, however.
It will be interesting to see what happens. If the two primary troublemakers refuse to step in line, will they remove them from the blog or will they continue try to coax them into changing their behavior? Are they willing to purge their own for the greater good of the site, or are they all in it together regardless of misbehavior? I suppose it will test their commitment to the blog versus fellow agents.
I don't ever see them getting near RCG status with the behavior I see there. It will drive too many people away and will ultimately just remain an echo chamber. It's a shame too because -- even though I may disagree with some of the conclusions -- I think there's potentially some good information from there. I'm getting the impression that some of the other contributors are really getting fed up with the antics.
The challenge we face is that if we want the blog to be a place where people can openly discuss and debate different points of view, we can't really create an environment like that by "purging" our ranks. Mack and Larry may be pretty shrill at times, but I'm pretty sure they are both capable of bringing something to the table that is valuable. Mack seems like a smart guy, just needs to figure out this whole blogging thing.
And if the normal pattern holds true, he'll either do that or tire of the exercise altogether.
Mack and Larry may be pretty shrill at times, but I'm pretty sure they are both capable of bringing something to the table that is valuable. Mack seems like a smart guy, just needs to figure out this whole blogging thing.
And if the normal pattern holds true, he'll either do that or tire of the exercise altogether.
Mack and Larry seem to reinforce each other's behaviors. I don't think either will "figure out" this blogging thing, so I guess I'll wait for the two of them to tire of the exercise altogether before making the PI Blog a regular stop on my real estate reading list.
I agree, John. I've administered another (non-housing related) forum for almost six years and I've learned that bad behavior encourages bad behavior, and letting bad behavior slide encourages it even more. You can give both gentle nudges and stern reprimands, but ultimately it is up to that person to decide to change their behavior. And sometimes they never do, to which they in my site's case got booted for the good of the site. We've so far only had to ban a couple of people, and the community has agreed that it was ultimately the right decision for the site.
There are some inherent differences between blogs and discussion forums, mostly in who can start threads and the perceived direction of conversation (uni-directional or bi-directional), but I think the same thing ultimately applies. At some point, a decision has to be made whether the behavior of a few is more important than the site itself. It's a tough call, even if you have the power to do so.
But, you have to admit that Mack at least is amusing. I never knew that I had so many personal deficiencies until Mack was kind enough to point them out, and I never knew that I was so utterly lacking in professional skills.
Besides, it is going to be a lot of fun quoting his posts back to him a year from now...
Mack and Larry keep emphasizing that they are experts. When someone proclaims to the world that they are experts and their views must be given greater weight while contributing little in the way of information or logical reasoning, how can they expect to be taken seriously? Check out this post from Larry's personal blog. If you are a bubblehead, you don't have a job or an education. Pot. Kettle. Black. Last I checked, you don't need to have a PhD from Caltech to become a Realtor. As non-Realtors stop posting at the P-I blog, it will fade into the obscurity it and many of its contributors so richly deserve. Tim's suggestion for improving the content of the P-I block by using Adblock is apt.
But, you have to admit that Mack at least is amusing. I never knew that I had so many personal deficiencies until Mack was kind enough to point them out, and I never knew that I was so utterly lacking in professional skills.
Besides, it is going to be a lot of fun quoting his posts back to him a year from now...
kpom,
Here's what I wrote about Mack on the PI blog:
One more thing.....back to the written word. Sometimes I see what Mack writes and almost fall on the floor laughing. He has a style that has been used by certain comic entertainers. Yes,he is confrontational, but he's often self-effacing. Granted there's a bite in the background, but frankly that's the art form of that kind of comedy. Having a "wild man" around isn't all bad. Mack makes me think. I'm saying give him a break and let him develop his voice. Who knows how it will end up, but I'll be willing to bet that the Seattle blogging scene in the end will be much richer because of Mack's contributions.
Guys remember, he's been at this for about a month and still developing his voice. In my opinion, he'll always be on the edge, but if you boycott Mack, look at all the fun you'll be missing!
All the fun we'll be missing? Have you read Larry's post that I linked to, Greg? Do you happen to agree with his post? "You is a scrub" - Is that Mack developing his voice? Or is it the "losers living on their Mom's couches" reference a part of that? Or is it the time when he declared that "I got game." Or is it the part where he comes off as a loudmouth who bragging about how rich he got off the market (What kind of a person goes around bragging about his wealth? Its not funny, just betrays a lack of taste.). This from the guy who calls others "drunks at the bar." Sorry, but there is no art here. No, his little rap ditties which make all the Realtors swoon and pant don't count.
On the other hand, Larry and Mack have made me appreciate Rain City and the posters there a lot more.
Some of you are doing EXACTLY what Larry did. You are trying to gain some kind of righteous high ground while you're doing the same darn thing.
Look through every comment on this thread. You'll see dozens of "blanket" condemnations of Realtors.
A couple of days ago, you'll see that an individual launched a petty personal attack toward me.
Now how would you feel, if I took the bully pulpit and shouted to the blogoshpere on how moronic you all are as a group, because of what that one person wrote? Many of you would a get twittered, band together and immediately go back and attack "those slimy real estate "professionals".
Well the fact is, that comment was not made be the group. It was made by one individual. The comment was completely out of line, but I'll bet by making those comments, the commenter thought that it would be appealing to your group. But some of the "leaders" of your group didn't support it, because they recognized it for what it was.
Final point....We all have a choice.
You're witnessing mine. I'm choosing to create conversation, not stifle it. I'm choosing to come over here, to listen and converse with the articulate and ignore the ignorant. I chose to stick up for you on SREP. I'm choosing to try to get on the solution side, and not remain the problem.
Some of you are doing EXACTLY what Larry did. You are trying to gain some kind of righteous high ground while you're doing the same darn thing.
Greg,
The major difference I see is in who is a "blog contributor" vs. who leaves comments on the message boards. Obviously, every message board is going to have a wide range when it comes to manners and civility, but from what I can tell, the three main blog contributors here keep a very civil tone. On the PI blog, Mack and Larry are about as low on the civility scale as anyone (be it a contributor or a message boarder). It sets a tone for the entire blog. While you can't avoid some people posting "drive by insults" as you refer to them, you can avoid the blog contributors putting them in the main blog entries. All that does is encourage more of the same behavior on the message boards.
I think the message boards here are much more civil than the response threads on the PI Blog, and these message boards get a lot more posts. In my opinion, this is a direct result of the tone set by the three contributors. Sure, some comments get out of hand, but I think those are in the minority. Contrast that with the PI Blog response threads which start off bad and get worse.
I admit I've been guilty of grouping all Realtors together. My apologies for that. However, I have to say that reponses like yours are the exception, not the norm.
John,
I'll agree to a point. However, my point is many of you guys here give away too much power. It's rarely the post that offends, it's in the comments. In the comments area, Larry and Mack are just like you and me, just another person with an opionion. Heck, your "The Tim" started this thread and it's all about "those crazy SREP realtors".
Look guys, I can't stop anyone for posting what they post. What I can personally do, is my best to maintian civility and conversation. For what it's worth, this is a highly participatory blog as well as RCG as well as SREP. There is a curve in learning the ropes.
Look guys, I can't stop anyone for posting what they post. What I can personally do, is my best to maintian civility and conversation. For what it's worth, this is a highly participatory blog as well as RCG as well as SREP. There is a curve in learning the ropes.
I think your intentions are good, but I think you have too much of a fight on your hands with your own contributors. Unfortunately, I am with LHR and will refrain from reading the PI Blog until Larry and Mack decide the blogging thing isn't for them.
This shouldn't affect my ability to get your thoughts as I still read seattlebubble and RCG on a daily basis.
Kudos to you for trying to raise the level of discourse. Yes, like many bubbleheads, I've lumped Realtors together into the same barrel together. However, I don't really mean any more offense that when I stereotype cops, lawyers, IRS agents, etc. Most adults can differentiate between a stereotype and individual human beings.
The thing that kills me about the discussion over at PI is that several of the previously mentioned active contributors make no effort to read or listen to other people's contributions. When they don't like (or understand) what they read, they come back with the same old 'you must be living in your parents' basement line.' It's juvenile, and a waste of time.
The thing that kills me about the discussion over at PI is that several of the previously mentioned active contributors make no effort to read or listen to other people's contributions. When they don't like (or understand) what they read, they come back with the same old 'you must be living in your parents' basement line.' It's juvenile, and a waste of time.
Lax,
Yup,
I'm saying the same thing.
So what? You contributed yesterday, (very articulately) and made some points that caused me and others to reflect and think.
John, Lax
Go on over and catch up on the discussion that I've been having with Larry.
Greg, To me it would be great to see this blog reach a potential I think it is missing. I read over 150 real estate blogs a day. I was excited to be asked to join the group of you. I am still glad to be here, but I am astounded the loud voice that gets its play. A voice that, in my humble opinion, is out of balance with reality. OK, be that. So we debate and try to convince. It turns out that it is a total waste of time. You can provide facts and support to the facts as you and Mack have done, but they are turned into insanity by the anon. I frankly don't think that it is a personal attack.
Maybe I am wrong. Maybe this is a place to nurture these guys. And if so, please tell me the point. Did anyone gain any benefit from the 100 plus comments made on Macks post?
To me nothing there seems to indicate he has changed his view that anyone here has anything of value to say. I think I'll continue to abstain.
...but personally duder I would be glad for you to stop commenting. The only twinge of remorse this gives me, is I think you bring out the best in Macks funny side. I would love to see the vacuum theory in effect here. Have the professionals continue to write from their experience - have the bubble babies not comment - see how the vacuum is filled. I bet it is more interesting, more important, and more fun.
I'm not sure I have the time (since contrary to his opinion, I do have a full time job) to watch the evolution of Larry.
Comments
I'll check it out.
Greg
I understand. Thanks,
Listen To Your Uncle Dustin
"Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries!"
"Now, go away, or I shall taunt you a second time!"
I don't ever see them getting near RCG status with the behavior I see there. It will drive too many people away and will ultimately just remain an echo chamber. It's a shame too because -- even though I may disagree with some of the conclusions -- I think there's potentially some good information from there. I'm getting the impression that some of the other contributors are really getting fed up with the antics.
If only that French soldier had 14 years infantry experience it would be an exact match. Too bad he didn't.
And if the normal pattern holds true, he'll either do that or tire of the exercise altogether.
Mack and Larry seem to reinforce each other's behaviors. I don't think either will "figure out" this blogging thing, so I guess I'll wait for the two of them to tire of the exercise altogether before making the PI Blog a regular stop on my real estate reading list.
There are some inherent differences between blogs and discussion forums, mostly in who can start threads and the perceived direction of conversation (uni-directional or bi-directional), but I think the same thing ultimately applies. At some point, a decision has to be made whether the behavior of a few is more important than the site itself. It's a tough call, even if you have the power to do so.
Besides, it is going to be a lot of fun quoting his posts back to him a year from now...
That post is really unbelievable. A real mark of a "professional".
I guess that even over the internet, you can smell the fear...
kpom,
Here's what I wrote about Mack on the PI blog:
One more thing.....back to the written word. Sometimes I see what Mack writes and almost fall on the floor laughing. He has a style that has been used by certain comic entertainers. Yes,he is confrontational, but he's often self-effacing. Granted there's a bite in the background, but frankly that's the art form of that kind of comedy. Having a "wild man" around isn't all bad. Mack makes me think. I'm saying give him a break and let him develop his voice. Who knows how it will end up, but I'll be willing to bet that the Seattle blogging scene in the end will be much richer because of Mack's contributions.
Guys remember, he's been at this for about a month and still developing his voice. In my opinion, he'll always be on the edge, but if you boycott Mack, look at all the fun you'll be missing!
Couldn't have said it better myself! Looks like it was written by some pissed-off teenager trying to get back at somebody.
Sad . . .
And they wonder why we laugh when they call themselves 'professionals'.
Would you hire this person as your RE agent?
Anybody? Bueller? Hello?
On the other hand, Larry and Mack have made me appreciate Rain City and the posters there a lot more.
Do I agree with it? NOPE
Would I ever write something to that effect? NOPE
Does that post condemn all Realtors? It shouldn't
And here's a point.
Some of you are doing EXACTLY what Larry did. You are trying to gain some kind of righteous high ground while you're doing the same darn thing.
Look through every comment on this thread. You'll see dozens of "blanket" condemnations of Realtors.
A couple of days ago, you'll see that an individual launched a petty personal attack toward me.
Now how would you feel, if I took the bully pulpit and shouted to the blogoshpere on how moronic you all are as a group, because of what that one person wrote? Many of you would a get twittered, band together and immediately go back and attack "those slimy real estate "professionals".
Well the fact is, that comment was not made be the group. It was made by one individual. The comment was completely out of line, but I'll bet by making those comments, the commenter thought that it would be appealing to your group. But some of the "leaders" of your group didn't support it, because they recognized it for what it was.
Final point....We all have a choice.
You're witnessing mine. I'm choosing to create conversation, not stifle it. I'm choosing to come over here, to listen and converse with the articulate and ignore the ignorant. I chose to stick up for you on SREP. I'm choosing to try to get on the solution side, and not remain the problem.
Greg Perry
Greg,
The major difference I see is in who is a "blog contributor" vs. who leaves comments on the message boards. Obviously, every message board is going to have a wide range when it comes to manners and civility, but from what I can tell, the three main blog contributors here keep a very civil tone. On the PI blog, Mack and Larry are about as low on the civility scale as anyone (be it a contributor or a message boarder). It sets a tone for the entire blog. While you can't avoid some people posting "drive by insults" as you refer to them, you can avoid the blog contributors putting them in the main blog entries. All that does is encourage more of the same behavior on the message boards.
I think the message boards here are much more civil than the response threads on the PI Blog, and these message boards get a lot more posts. In my opinion, this is a direct result of the tone set by the three contributors. Sure, some comments get out of hand, but I think those are in the minority. Contrast that with the PI Blog response threads which start off bad and get worse.
I admit I've been guilty of grouping all Realtors together. My apologies for that. However, I have to say that reponses like yours are the exception, not the norm.
I'll agree to a point. However, my point is many of you guys here give away too much power. It's rarely the post that offends, it's in the comments. In the comments area, Larry and Mack are just like you and me, just another person with an opionion. Heck, your "The Tim" started this thread and it's all about "those crazy SREP realtors".
Look guys, I can't stop anyone for posting what they post. What I can personally do, is my best to maintian civility and conversation. For what it's worth, this is a highly participatory blog as well as RCG as well as SREP. There is a curve in learning the ropes.
I think your intentions are good, but I think you have too much of a fight on your hands with your own contributors. Unfortunately, I am with LHR and will refrain from reading the PI Blog until Larry and Mack decide the blogging thing isn't for them.
This shouldn't affect my ability to get your thoughts as I still read seattlebubble and RCG on a daily basis.
Kudos to you for trying to raise the level of discourse. Yes, like many bubbleheads, I've lumped Realtors together into the same barrel together. However, I don't really mean any more offense that when I stereotype cops, lawyers, IRS agents, etc. Most adults can differentiate between a stereotype and individual human beings.
The thing that kills me about the discussion over at PI is that several of the previously mentioned active contributors make no effort to read or listen to other people's contributions. When they don't like (or understand) what they read, they come back with the same old 'you must be living in your parents' basement line.' It's juvenile, and a waste of time.
Yup,
I'm saying the same thing.
So what? You contributed yesterday, (very articulately) and made some points that caused me and others to reflect and think.
John, Lax
Go on over and catch up on the discussion that I've been having with Larry.
Greg
Larry's most recent post with substance (i.e. not a "thank you" post):
To me nothing there seems to indicate he has changed his view that anyone here has anything of value to say. I think I'll continue to abstain.
Yes of course that was there......we all know what Larry's stance was.
Keep reading.
Keep moving backwards in the progression of things. You're right, of course.
I'll choose to keep moving forward.
All the best,
Greg