Seattle Bubble

News & discussion about real estate & the housing bubble in the Seattle area.

Seattle Bubble - News & discussion about real estate & the housing bubble in the Seattle area.

Entries Tagged as 'recession'

Stock Market Crash Historical Comparison Update

By The Tim on January 16th, 2009 at 11:47 AM · 56 Comments

I thought it would be interesting to post an update on the stock market crash graph that I first posted back in October.

In the chart below I have graphed the crashes of 1929, 1973, 1987, and 2001 alongside the current fall, with the peak points aligned near the left. Each crash is scaled on the y-axis to show the percent of the peak Dow Jones price.

Dow Jones Crashes

464 days into the crash, the current plunge still ranks second only to 1929. Back in October, we did drop for a brief time to a point lower than the lowest point on the green ’70s graph (45.1% off-peak), but we currently appear to be in a bit of a holding pattern at about 40% off peak.

On a related topic, I spotted this article from late last month that amused me: Market predictions proved to be tricky business

At a small, private event at the Metropolitan Grill in January, nine of the region’s brightest and most respected financial advisers gathered to sip fine wine, eat prime beef and forecast the financial future.

The date was Jan. 10. The Dow Jones industrial average was 12,853. And Washington Mutual was a pillar of the Seattle business scene.

With a quarter-century of such gatherings, the “Guess the Dow” luncheon at the Met has become an annual fat-cat Seattle tradition.

Consensus was that Starbucks Corp., Nordstrom Inc. and Microsoft Corp. stocks all would rise, the Dow would close above 14,000 and Hillary Clinton would be president.

Wrong. Wrong. Wrong. Definitely not. And wrong.

This year’s “Guess the Dow” luncheon is today was yesterday. I haven’t heard what their predictions are for 2009, but I have a contact that is attending and will ask him this afternoon will try to find out. Let’s see if the Seattle Bubble readership can collectively beat the “region’s brightest and most respected financial advisers.”

Where will the Dow Jones close for 2009?

  • Below 6,000 (17%, 118 Votes)
  • 6,000 to < 7,000 (18%, 124 Votes)
  • 7,000 to < 8,000 (22%, 156 Votes)
  • 8,000 to < 9,000 (20%, 139 Votes)
  • 9,000 to < 10,000 (16%, 112 Votes)
  • Above 10,000 (7%, 55 Votes)

Total Voters: 704

→ 56 CommentsCategories: Polls · Statistics
Tags: , , , ,

Weekend News Roundup

By The Tim on October 27th, 2008 at 9:05 AM · 44 Comments

Wow, lots of stories in the local papers this weekend about the slow housing market. Too many to post separately, so here’s a roundup of the weekend news. Let me know if I missed anything.

Everett Herald: Snohomish County builders slash home prices

Mike Pattison just took his own advice and bought a new home in the Silver Lake area.

He bargained hard for a lower price and even convinced the builder to throw in furniture.

“I’m a believer in our message,” said Pattison, who works for the Master Builders Association of King and Snohomish Counties. “It’s a great time to buy.”

Todd Britsch also makes another appearance in this article to repeat his “double digit appreciation returning soon” prediction. Fun times.

The Olympian: Families fight bad economy: Local people downsize, rethink budgets and reduce spending

Lynette Avery and her family used to go out for dinner every Friday. They’d take turns choosing the place – Red Robin, a pizza parlor or a nother family-friendly spot.

But in May, they were forced to move out of their Bucoda home because they couldn’t afford their mortgage payment. The family settled into a Tumwater rental.

“It was devastating,” Avery said of losing her home.

While it’s certainly sad when people lose “their” homes, what is more sad to me is how many people allowed themselves to be brainwashed into thinking that jumping head-first into a dangerous loan in order to overpay for a house was more important than financial prudence and patience.

Seattle Times: Homebuilders in region hurting despite what you see

It’s hard to find physical evidence that homebuilders in the Puget Sound area are suffering through what may be the worst downturn since the 1970 Boeing bust.

Gun-shy buyers aren’t unique to the new-home market, and that’s the problem. As the mortgage industry has staggered, foreclosures have risen, and prices have dropped throughout the market. Buyers for all types of homes sit on the sidelines.

Cumulatively, all these factors are causing a major decline in new-home construction here because new-house buyers mostly are move-up buyers. If they can’t sell their present homes, they can’t move up.

Wasn’t it just a year or two ago, as the housing markets in Florida and SoCal were just starting to go bust, that we were assured that builders here had learned from the mistakes made in those markets, and would not be facing such a dramatic slowdown? I wonder what ever happened to that.

Seattle Times: Downtown slowdown: Seattle, Bellevue building projects take a hit

How many construction cranes did you count the last time you drove through downtown Seattle or downtown Bellevue? Ten? Twelve? More?

Count them while you can.

The credit crunch and related economic woes are drying up the development pipeline in the region’s two commercial hubs. More than two dozen projects are on hold, many because developers say they can’t borrow money to build.

“It’s a different world now,” says Seattle land-use economist Matthew Gardner. “The banks have shut their doors.”

Different, yes. Unforeseeable, not really. But unfortunately, gung-ho builders were only interested in listening to the rosy predictions of people like Mr. Gardner, and ended up setting themselves up for this.

Seattle Times: Prospective condo buyers in Seattle area sitting on the fence

Sometime around the end of the year, the first residents will move into Bellevue Towers, Bellevue’s tallest skyscrapers.

They may have plenty of elbow room for a while.

The twin, 42-story luxury condo towers are nearly finished. But just over one-third of the 539 units have been sold.

“We had hoped to be two-thirds sold by now,” Scott Eaton, a principal with developer Gerding Edlen, said recently. “It’s a different world.”

The financial crunch is squeezing builders of new for-sale housing of all types, including those big new condo towers rising toward the sky in downtown Seattle and downtown Bellevue. More than 2,300 condo units are under construction in the two city centers, according to figures compiled by principal Dean Jones of the condo-marketing firm Realogics. Almost all are scheduled for delivery within the next year.

So far fewer than half have been sold. In some projects barely one-quarter of the units are spoken for.

Note that this is only counting units in the “city centers.” Who knows how many more there are in the surrounding neighborhoods and towns. So either a large number of condos will be eventually converted to rentals, pumping up the rental supply, or there are going to be some crazy deals on condos in a couple of years. Either way, it looks like a win for affordable housing.

Update: One more from the Seattle Times this morning: Stalled projects, scarred neighborhoods

A crater-sized hole near Green Lake. A derelict corner in Lynnwood. A sorry shopping mall in Kirkland.

Retail development projects, slowed or stopped by a flailing economy, are revealing themselves as blights on neighborhood business districts.

You can add one in my neighborhood to that list, as the developer of the long-promised “Kenmore Village” is having trouble finding an anchor tenant and is putting off the project, waiting for the financial crisis to settle and the housing market to improve.  They could be waiting quite a while.

(Debra Smith, Everett Herald, 10.26.2008)
(Diane Huber, The Olympian, 10.26.2008)
(Elizabeth Rhodes & Stuart Eskenazi, Seattle Times, 10.26.2008)
(Eric Pryne, Seattle Times, 10.26.2008)
(Eric Pryne, Seattle Times, 10.26.2008)
(Stuart Eskenazi, Seattle Times, 10.27.2008)

→ 44 CommentsCategories: News
Tags: , , , , , , , , , ,

Comparing Past Market Crashes

By The Tim on October 24th, 2008 at 11:23 AM · 77 Comments

Since the stock market is all over the news again today, I thought it would be interesting to look at some past stock crashes and see how the current one compares.

In the chart below I have graphed the crashes of 1929, 1973, 1987, and 2001 alongside the current fall, with the peak points aligned near the left. Each crash is scaled on the y-axis to show the percent of the peak Dow Jones price.

Dow Jones Crashes
Click to enlarge

Yesterday’s close was 380 days after the recent 2007 peak in the Dow. Here is the total drop 380 days after peak for each crash above:

1929: 38.6%
1973: 18.3%
1987: 24.2%
2001: 13.6%
2007: 38.6%

Will the current crash play out over the next two years more like 1987 or 1929?

Update: Updated the chart to reflect today’s close. The Dow has now fallen further in the current crash (40.8%) than it did in the same length of time from the peak in 1929 (39.9%).

→ 77 CommentsCategories: Statistics
Tags: , , ,

More Good List-Based “News” from Forbes

By The Tim on October 16th, 2008 at 6:00 AM · 30 Comments

The constant stream of lists from Forbes provides a great distraction and source of amusement. Their latest list is no exception. Behold the ten “Best Cities To Ride Out The Recession”:

  1. Austin, TX
  2. Oklahoma City, OK
  3. Honolulu, HI
  4. Portland, OR
  5. Tulsa, OK
  6. Virginia Beach, VA
  7. Seattle, WA
  8. Baltimore, MD
  9. Boston, MA
  10. Lancaster, PA

From the article:

The economy faces a tough recession, but it won’t hit equally everywhere. While some places will get pummeled, others will be far less scathed.

There are cities better poised to weather the crisis. Unemployment is on the rise almost everywhere, but in northwest cities like Portland and Seattle, northeast cities like Boston and Baltimore or energy and agriculture cities like Oklahoma City, Tulsa and Austin, it remains low.

Here’s a link to the summary of their “methodology,” in which they explain that the list is derived from looking at real estate data from Zillow, NAR, and Case-Shiller, job data, income estimates, and GDP for each city.

The hilarious thing to me is that basketball-stealing Oklahoma City was #2, while Seattle placed five spots lower at #7, also getting beat by Tulsa and Portland. Ouch.

Coincidentally, BusinessWeek generated a “Best Cities for Riding Out a Recession” list of its own (related article), which places Seattle lower, but still in the top 20:

  1. Arlington, VA
  2. District of Columbia
  3. Durham, NC
  4. Madison, WI
  5. Boston, MA
  6. Pittsburgh, PA
  7. Baltimore, MD
  8. Baton Rouge, LA
  9. New Orleans, LA
  10. Philadelphia, PA
  11. Lubbock, TX
  12. Anchorage, AK
  13. Lexington-Fayette, KY
  14. Buffalo, NY
  15. Lincoln, NE
  16. Irvine, CA
  17. Seattle, WA
  18. Chesapeake, VA
  19. Albuquerque, NM
  20. Corpus Christi, TX


Hey, we’re ten spaces lower than on the Forbes list, but at least we didn’t get beat by Oklahoma City.

(Joshua Zumbrun, Forbes, 10.15.2008)
(Prashant Gopal, BusinessWeek, 10.14.2008)

→ 30 CommentsCategories: News
Tags: , , ,

Poll: Which is Most Likely for the Economy?

By The Tim on October 12th, 2008 at 12:05 AM · 33 Comments

Please vote in this poll using the sidebar.

Which is Most Likely for the Economy?

  • The whole mess is worked out by December. (1%, 4 Votes)
  • Short recession (<1 year), then business as usual. (9%, 29 Votes)
  • Long recession (1-3 years), then business as usual. (46%, 143 Votes)
  • Japan-style long bust. (18%, 56 Votes)
  • 70s-style stagnation. (9%, 27 Votes)
  • Depression. (17%, 53 Votes)

Total Voters: 312


This poll will be active and displayed on the sidebar through 10.18.2008.

→ 33 CommentsCategories: Polls
Tags: , , ,

Weekend Roundup: 1873, Hiring Freeze, Un-Sale…

By The Tim on October 4th, 2008 at 1:41 PM · 58 Comments

Here’s a brief roundup of a bunch of noteworthy items that have popped into my inbox and RSS feeds in the last day or two.

Aubrey Cohen: Current economic woes more like 1873 than 1929.

“When commentators invoke 1929, I am dubious,” writes Scott Reynolds Nelson, a professor of history at the College of William and Mary. “According to most historians and economists, that depression had more to do with overlarge factory inventories, a stock-market crash, and Germany’s inability to pay back war debts, which then led to continuing strain on British gold reserves. None of those factors is really an issue now.”

Nelson continues: “In fact, the current economic woes look a lot like what my 96-year-old grandmother still calls ‘the real Great Depression.’ She pinched pennies in the 1930s, but she says that times were not nearly so bad as the depression her grandparents went through. That crash came in 1873 and lasted more than four years.”

Noted.

Seattle Times: Microsoft hiring plans to face “adjustment” as tech spending slows

Microsoft confirmed Friday it’s re-evaluating its current hiring plans and “will make some adjustments as appropriate.”

Those adjustments are likely to be downward, given Chief Executive Steve Ballmer’s recent comments about Microsoft being affected by the economic slowdown.

Although the company still intends to keep growing, any reductions are unsettling for a region reeling from the fire sale of Washington Mutual, the sale of Safeco, a Boeing strike and a sputtering housing market.

Seattle Times real estate blogger Cindy Zetts shares some recent meandering excerpts from her blog, in which she appears to be trying to spin today’s market positively.

Aubrey Cohen also gives a good outline of what the local foreclosure auction scene looks like today.

That’s the foreclosure auction scene these days: lots of houses for sale, lots of cautious investors and an increasing number of civilians who think it might be a good place to get a home at a bargain price.

And lastly, Mr. Cohen again, who points out in his blog that local real estate broker Coldwell Banker Bain is thumbing their nose at the national Coldwell Banker office, declining to participate in the 10% off “10-Day Sales Event.”

“While I appreciate the effort to ‘make something happen’ relative to the more adversely affected markets in the U.S., we strongly feel the ‘retail’ mindset of this promotion is not appropriate,” Ron Sparks, managing vice president Coldwell Banker Bain, said via e-mail. “Homes are unique, and each brings a nuanced value proposition to the market. We do our very best to properly price our listings every day.”

In other words, “Seattle is special. Homes here are worth whatever we say they’re worth, and these stubborn buyers just need to deal with it.”

→ 58 CommentsCategories: News
Tags: , , , , ,