Speaking of local layoffs… Boeing is next.

Some folks are mentioning this in the comments, and it’s pretty big news, so I’ll just drop it on you: Boeing plans workforce reduction of 4,500, with layoffs in second quarter

Boeing said Friday it will cut its Commercial Airplane workforce in 2009 by about 4,500 people, mostly in Washington State.

The reduction will be made largely through layoffs, though the figure also includes attrition.

“Initial 60-day layoff notices will be issued on Feb. 20, and most layoffs will occur in the second quarter of the year,” said Scott Carson, chief executive of Commercial Airplanes in an internal message to employees Friday morning.

Boeing employs just over 76,400 people in the state, the vast majority of those in the Commercial Airplanes unit, so this represents more than a 5 percent workforce cut.

Dang.

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About The Tim

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market. Tim also hosts the weekly improv comedy sci-fi podcast Dispatches from the Multiverse.

57 comments:

  1. 1
    Magnolia44 says:

    “Dang” ? Why, what’s been the theme of this website the last year housing price decrease and layoff speak and speculation which will affect housing prices.

    Like my other post says, this is a plus for your website… and now you and others will say “dang”? Lol can’t have it both ways.

  2. 2
    The Tim says:

    Please point out a single time I have indicated that I think layoffs are a good thing. You can search this entire blog using Google by adding site:seattlebubble.com to the front of your search.

    Take your time, I’m not in a rush.

  3. 3
    Buceri says:

    So much for huge backlog, etc.

  4. 4
    Robert Wojciechowski says:

    Wait. What about Obama bailout? Can’t Boeing simply ask Obama to immediately send cash so that it can continue to hold all Boeing employees? It would just need to do a regular wire transfer. Once per month would be sufficient. Twice per month would be also ok. The key would be to make regular payments.

  5. 5
    Ken says:

    Supposed to be mostly with overhead. But i’m sure a lot of engineers will be let go as well.

  6. 6
    Brian says:

    Not really Magnolia. As far as I know, people here were not rooting for job losses. they were rooting for the housing bubble to be punctured. Unfortunately, the economy went into the tank at the same time bubble burst. The lousy economy will hasten the inevitable retraction of home prices, but do not confuse satisfaction with a return to sustainable (and reasonable) housing prices with satisfaction of job losses/recession. Most people do not root for the failure/devastation of the lives of others.

    A recession and a large amount of job losses hurts everyone. With less money to go around, even those of us waiting to purchase a house at a decent price may not be able to do so. While my business continues to do well, I have some clients who have lost their jobs and no longer can retain me.

  7. 7
    Magnolia44 says:

    Tim

    Its tone and the theme some of the topics take on. Posting topics based on rumors then stirring up talk of what if’s in a way that seems like posters are rubbing their hands together saying I can’t wait to see what that does.

    I think I have seen some other posters agree with that, I am just posting my observation but as a reader that tone and theme has come up numerous times, read between the lines.

    Anyway it is what it is. Life goes on.

  8. 8
    Ray Pepper says:

    Nobody better then Howard Davidowitz to tell you who is going to be layed off and who is going out of business. Our poor shopping malls!

    http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=989836522&play=1

  9. 9
    The Tim says:

    Magnolia44 @ 7,

    So you’re basing your comment @ 1 on your interpretation of tone—which is notoriously difficult to correctly convey and read on the internet—rather than something specific that was actually said. Thanks for the clarification.

  10. 10
    Sniglet says:

    As far as I know, people here were not rooting for job losses. they were rooting for the housing bubble to be punctured.

    I, for one, was rooting for the insanity of the credit bubble to come to an end, because I knew that the longer it remained the worse the consequences would become. I always realized that the broader global economy would take a nose-dive when housing did, the credit bubble was driving everything, and when that bubble popped, EVERYTHING would get hit.

    I don’t relish the consequences of the popped bubble, but allowing the credit bubble to get even larger would have been sheer insanity. I only wish that the bubble had collapsed much earlier, when the damage was more minimal. Alas, manias follow their own logic…

    My point for the last decade has been that asset prices were ultimately going to fall substantially (stocks, real-estate, commodities, or whatever), and that best thing people could do to protect themselves was put cash under the mattress.

    You can read about my case for a rising dollar (and crashing asset prices) at my blog at http://www.surkan.com.

  11. 11
    Brian says:

    The question is, what are people doing with their money now? I sure am not putting it in the stock market. I pulled all mine out December 30, 2007 and put it in a CD getting 4.5%.
    I think now is a good time to horde a decent amount of cash (paper bills) and put money in assets like CDs with different lengths so you have staggered maturity dates and are able to reinvest at different times. This would allow you to safely minimize exposure to inflation/deflation. Do you agree?

  12. 12

    I don’t think The Tim has taken pleasure in job losses, though I think some people who comment on Seattle Bubble do.

    That said, I believe the Seattle area is going to see numerous layoffs this quarter: Boeing and WaMu/Chase are known; I personally believe we’re going to see layoffs at Microsoft, and I wouldn’t be surprised if we see some at Starbucks.

    I’m not saying I take pleasure in this; I’m simply posting my personal predictions, based on my educated guesses.

  13. 13
    singliac says:

    Magnolia,
    Didn’t you say you were going to go back into lurk mode for a few years? You made it two days. Congratulations! :)

  14. 14
    Groundhogday says:

    As someone employed by the state, I take no pleasure in hearing of layoffs. Fewer workers and lower profits mean lower tax revenues fewer services and state employees losing their jobs. I didn’t speculate in the real estate bubble, but could well be hurt by the fallout.

    The bigger news is that plane sales contracts are down 50%. Give the delay between contracting and delivery, Boeing could be laying off people for years to come.

  15. 15
    anna says:

    I do not root for people losing their jobs. Especially sorry for the temps who are going to lose their jobs first in this case.

    But I will not shield any tears if eventually the layoffs come to the Boeing Union workers. It was pure greed and stupidity for their last strike and I hope they learn a bitter lesson.

  16. 16
    DavidB says:

    Magnolia seems to be suffering from a case of “sour grapes”. This is clearly someone who bought a home when prices were high and now he’s unhappy that prices are declining to more “realistic” levels and he’s watching his equity evaporate!

    I suspect Magolia may counter and say that at least he has a home and I can only rent rather than buy. Well, I was lucky enough that I sold my Queen Anne home in 2007 that I’d purchased in 1997 so I have plenty of equity to buy house anytime I choose. I’ve rented (on Magnolia) for the past 2 years because I could see that houses in Seattle were overdue for a correction!

    Some of us were able to see the housing bubble for what it was and knew that home price increases were not sustainable. I don’t think anyone here wants to see people lose their jobs.

  17. 17
    Magnolia44 says:

    Yeah David B you are correct. I have stated time and time again I expected 12 – 15 % declines, I am in no hurry to sell and I got my home below market value on top of everything 25% of income mortgage pmt.

    My point as of late has been overall economy and the impact on both sides , renter and owner alike.with economic collapse we are all screwed.

    Thanks for your hero story of how u sold at the top, congrats not all were smart like you great job!!! Let me guess short financials and long commodities until that bubble burst right, all money market in 401k last year right?

  18. 18
    kfhoz says:

    The PI is also predicted to close down in about a month, I wonder how many people will lose jobs there?

    Magnolia, here is a way to test where the “tone” is coming from when you read something: modify the text in your mind to be saying the opposite of what it does and then see if you still notice the same “tone”. For example, in the news, where an article says “Democrats” I put in “Republicans” and vice versa. It is humbling how often I notice a change of “tone” in the same article when I do that mental exercise.

  19. 19
    DavidB says:

    Magnolia, I’m a CPA so I’m pretty good with my money!

    The basic rule of thumb is not to invest any money that you need short term in the market. I invested money that I’ll use for my home downpayment in CD’s. They were initially earning about 5% but unfortunately rates have been declining. I was thinking of buying a home this spring but I’ll wait to see if prices are showing any signs of stabilizing first.

  20. 20

    kfhoz: “The PI is also predicted to close down in about a month, I wonder how many people will lose jobs there?”

    My guess: a few hundred. While sad, this is small compared to announced layoffs at Boeing and Washington Mutual, or others that are rumored to be coming.

  21. 21
    Dave Lincoln says:

    Groundhog Day – I don’t mean to dis you personally, but I see no downside to fewer employees working for the State of Washington (or any other). The fewer government employees, the more freedom. I’m all for freedom.

    I think one could find a high positive correlation between fewer government employees and ease of new business start-up, . The big guys can handle government control much more easily than the little guys, but in the long run, it’s the little guys that create the jobs.

    Shut the government down for all I care. I don’t need license plates. I don’t need helmet laws, I don’t need no-smoking ordinances.

    Sorry to hear about Boeing, though.

  22. 22
    Buceri says:

    “Shut the government down for all I care. I don’t need license plates. I don’t need helmet laws, I don’t need no-smoking ordinances.”

    Don’t forget about the traffic lights and the military. Hey, screw schools!!!

  23. 23
    BanteringBear says:

    Magnolia44 posted:

    “Its tone and the theme some of the topics take on. Posting topics based on rumors then stirring up talk of what if’s in a way that seems like posters are rubbing their hands together saying I can’t wait to see what that does.”

    Delusional.

  24. 24
    Dave says:

    anna @15 — The U.S. is in recession, and has been for the past year. Most countries around the globe are in worse shape than we are. People are not flying, and airlines are grounding planes. With poor balance sheets, they are not ordering new aircraft and delaying delivery of existing purchases. THAT is why Boeing is planning layoffs. It has absolutely nothing to do with the unions.

  25. 25
    Roger says:

    My guess is that internet libertarians like Dave Lincoln wouldn’t last 24 hours in a lawless, no-government society, but they sure like the sound of it.

  26. 26
    Dave says:

    Dave Lincoln is right — if it wasn’t for big government, then there wouldn’t be anyone to prevent all those small business owners from creating millions and millions of low paying, no benefit, dead end jobs.

  27. 27
    Dave Lincoln says:

    Dave, you really think that all small businesses create low-paying jobs? What about Bill Gate’s outfit back in the early 80’s? How’d that turn out? (except for this year, of course).

    “Don’t forget about the traffic lights and the military. Hey, screw schools!!” I won’t, don’t worry. Yes, indeed “screw government schools”, if you don’t mind my correction. The military is indeed a proper function of govenment – just about the only proper function of the federal government. Traffic lights are OK; I’m not a big fan of 4-way stop signs however, never really cared much for them.

    Anything else from the peanut gallery?

  28. 28
    Dave Lincoln says:

    I guess I’d last longer than you, Roger. Sounds like you would not recognize freedom if it came up and bit you on the a__.

  29. 29
    Dave says:

    Dave Lincoln – so I imagine you don’t have a sewer system and you have a well for water?

    I imagine you will never need the police.
    I imagine your house will never burn down.
    You will never need power, phoneservice, or anything that uses a signal.
    Who needs traffic laws – not me.
    Hell- I imagine you will never need to drive.
    I imagine you produce all your own food – or if you don’t I assume you like the flavor of Melamine.
    Heck – who needs elections? I assume the person in power is the one who is supposed to be there.

    I find your particular brand of “stong libertairiam that doesn’t need anythign form government” funny at the best, quite deluded (and funny/pathetic) at the worst.

    Dave

  30. 30
    Groundhogday says:

    “Groundhog Day – I don’t mean to dis you personally, but I see no downside to fewer employees working for the State of Washington (or any other). The fewer government employees, the more freedom. I’m all for freedom.”

    So you are craving the freedom to be less educated and to have your fellow citizens be less educated as well? Are you craving the freedom to pay higher tuition and get less meaningful interaction with instructors? Or perhaps it is the freedom to do without technical innovation and basic scientific advancement, most of which is driven by universities in the US (look at where Silicon Valley is located.)

    Everyone thinks that the government sector is terribly inefficient, but as we have discovered to our chagrin the private sector can dramatically misallocate resources. Hard as it is to believe, state universities are more efficient than their private equivalents. Medicaid is MUCH more efficient than private insurance plans. If there is a silver lining to this downturn it will be the discrediting of Reagan’s philosophy that government is the problem, and the general recognition in desperate times that there is a role for government.

    Can the state universities become more efficient? Certainly. Over the past 30 years, while faculty and line staff positions have been flat both in terms of numbers and salaries, administrative positions have bloated exponentially on both counts. It was the private sector corporate model, after all, to pay “executives” ever increasing salaries to provide magical and hard to find management expertise (I’m being sarcastic). But the administrators won’t lose their jobs and they won’t be taking pay cuts. Nor will unproductive tenured faculty face needed layoffs. Instead, we will be cutting technicians, clerical staff and untenured instructors… the low end of the totem pole. Sorry, but I don’t see this as a good thing.

  31. 31
    The Tim says:

    Groundhogday,

    Are you craving the freedom to pay higher tuition…

    It’s arguable that government “assistance” is largely to blame for the skyrocketing cost of higher education. Here’s a paper that explores that concept in some depth (pdf), drawing parallels with the housing market.

    That said, we’re getting way off-topic here, and should possibly migrate this discussion to the forums if we want to continue it further.

  32. 32
    Groundhogday says:

    It’s arguable that government “assistance” is largely to blame for the skyrocketing cost of higher education. Here’s a paper that explores that concept in some depth (pdf), drawing parallels with the housing market.”

    From what I’ve read, the growth in student lending has been a major factor in tuition escalation. And government guarantees have certainly facilitated an unhealthy expansion of lending in this area–students take on far more debt than their education justifies. So in this sense what has happened to education is all part of the larger credit bubble.

    But as with housing, the money hasn’t necessarily flowed in useful directions. There have been big pushes in student services, nicer dorms, a dean for every minority group, luxurious rec centers and union buildings. On an individual level, students feel the need to live in nicer apartments, have nicer clothes and drive new cars. And admin growth has gone crazy. But funding for educational activities has actually been flat at at time of rapid tuition growth. We have essentially invested in the educational equivalent of granite countertops and stainless appliances.

  33. 33
    Dave Lincoln says:

    “You will never need power, phoneservice, or anything that uses a signal.”

    “I imagine you produce all your own food – or if you don’t I assume you like the flavor of Melamine.”

    Uhhh, WTF? You want the government responsible for growing your food now, Dave? Dude, you need a nanny, not a government. I think the North Korea could really use a guy like you, other Dave.

    And, Tim, you are right about it being off topic, so that’s the last I’ll say about this (on this post).

  34. 34
    EconE says:

    Dave, you really think that all small businesses create low-paying jobs?

    I’m sure many do. Big businesses also.

    What about Bill Gate’s outfit back in the early 80’s? How’d that turn out?

    Wow…and I thought that the cherrypicking by housing bulls and housing bears was extreme!

  35. 35
    rentalbliss says:

    Groundhogday can you post a link to that article?

    As I was typing this my husband called to say his brother showed up to work today and the business was closed, no warning nothing just a sign on the door. This is in the sacramento area and I believe it was somehow in the aerospace industry.

    They walked away from a mortgage just a couple months back, paid 460k and was auctioned to the highest bidder of 103k. So at least they no longer have the huge mortgage to worry about and I truley feel for them. These are some scary times, and I don’t believe anyone wanted to see the pain that many are feeling now.

  36. 36
    rentalbliss says:

    sorry see it above

  37. 37
    Tiki says:

    First time poster. Just wanted to agree with the first post, many (most) posters take pleasure in the economic misfortune of others. To date it has been mostly targeted at homeowners or real estate people, but i think the tone is applies to ‘softies’ or boeing folks from many things i’ve read on the site. Unfortunately the economy is getting to the point where virtually nobody is immune to this economic virus

    In the same way Fox News viewers don’t see a conservative bias or MSNBC viewers don’t perceive a liberal bias, I don’t think most of you can sense the tone if you’ve been a long time visitor to the site.

    That being said there’s interesting data on the site and it’s certain good to have a counterbalance to the real estate talking heads.

  38. 38
    Lake Hills Renter says:

    Don’t confuse predictions with desire. Saying you think something will happen doesn’t necessarily mean you want it to happen. Some people don’t seem to understand that notion. The idea that most posters here take pleasure in the misfortune of others is flat out wrong.

  39. 39
    FreedomLover says:

    I think we need a fundamental re-examining of the American economy In 1930 it made sense, 80% manufacturing/agriculture and only 20% services. Back then the services meant something that people understood and needed. However now in our ‘information economy” with 70% of employment in services, nobody can justify why our jobs are needed.

    In the end, what does a person need to survive other then food, water and some warm shelter? You don’t need a $14T economy to support that basic level of subsitence. Probably only $1-2T is needed for our 320million population after we kick out all the illegal aliens.

  40. 40
    economist says:

    It’s arguable that government “assistance” is largely to blame for the skyrocketing cost of higher education.

    The US has three very expensive government-funded programs to get young adults out of the labor market and decrease the official unemployment rate:

    1. College (middle class).
    2. Military (working class and poor whites).
    3. Prison (poor minorities).

    No other advanced economy feels the need to have so many of its young people in these three institutions.

    College has simply become a far more expensive version of what high school was in the 50’s. The average graduate is no better educated. When going to college becomes the norm, college has to be dumbed down to the average person. College used to be just for rich kids and really smart kids, and government aid should only be for the latter. If only a fraction of people went to college, a degree would not be required for a good job.

  41. 41
    FreedomLover says:

    economist – I think employers will adjust their requirements when they realize that very few people can afford a $60K college degree.

  42. 42
    Dave Lincoln says:

    F.L., # 39: “Right On!”, as the old fogies say.

  43. 43
    DavidB says:

    economist, you’re stereotyping everyone with a college degree. Many jobs require advance degrees because of the technical nature of the position. For example, would you go to a doctor who didn’t have a degree? Accounting, engineering, architecture, and other positions are also highly technical and you’re not going to qualify for them with just a high school degree.

    freedomlover, employers will not adjust their requirements for a college degree because of the expense of a college degree. Whenever I have an opening I always look for the most qualified staff I can find. Even for the lowest clerical position I give preference to candidates with college degrees because I’ve seen that these people are much better able to take on more responsibilities and frequently have a higher level of commitment to ensuring that they do a good job and complete tasks on time. There is a big difference between the way people think who have college degrees compared to those without them.

    The fact of life is you need to be prepare yourself so you’re the best qualified for any position that you want. We live in a highly competitive society and there will always be people willing to spend whatever money it takes to get undergraduate and graduate college degrees.

  44. 44
    Dave Lincoln says:

    Sure DavidB (and there are too many Daves here, BTW), of course engineering, medicine (really pre-med), the physical sciences and those type fields require much learning, and, therefore, a degree.

    How bout the literature majors that end up working at Burger King? General Studies, anyone? (it’s just to give the athletes a degree but allow them 8 hours a day for practice). Journalism (is a degree required? If it is, it does not seem to help them – ask The Tim – he probably doesn’t have a journalism degree, but I’d trust his writing over Dan Rather’s blabbermouthing any day of the week). I could go on – let me just picture the campus, and the waste…..

    I don’t mean to bad-mouth someone who is totally into Greek literature, as an example. If you are into it, more power to you, and the world needs some humanities types, just not 10,000 of them graduating per year from a small state!

    It is indeed a waste for more than 1/2 of the people in college to be there, unless partying and chasing poon*tang are considered the reason (nothing wrong with that – just be honest with yourself).

    Good morning.

  45. 45
    David Losh says:

    My goodness there are so many good comments here. If they were just bundled together it would show why we are where we are. Yes we take labor out of the labor pool and tell people working for a living is bad. It’s a bad thing to work.

    If you get a degree every one promises you fame, women, and a high standard of living. That’s the hook of higher education. The reality is it depends on the degree. A doctor yes, high demand, lawyer, not so much, and engineer you need a niche.

    Over the years I have hired many people with degrees. The first wave of employment shrinkage is, and should be, those people who, by benefit of a degree, engage in what I call corporate welfare.

    Financial Engineering is my current favorite. A Career Guidance Counselor was lamenting the number of students she has who need to change paths because the bottom has fallen out of Financial Engineering.

    Cars are my favorite example. We pay for people to design the dash board every model year. We over engineer yet the gas combustion engine really hasn’t changed since the 1940s.

    We paid to have robots assemble cars only to find we needed to upgrade the technology faster than the robots could pay for themselves. Billions of dollars were wasted on robots and yet we still have research grants going into robotic programs that were obsolete five years ago, a life time.

    Now let’s take those fire men. When was the last time you saw a house burn down? Yes technology has made homes safer with smoke alarms. We still pay firemen, we have to for the big jobs. I’m not kicking about that it just seems we should find other things for them to do.

    In my opinion it’s a matter of guidance or leadership. We need so much and we pay people to do nothing. Food should be cheap. We have land, chemicals, distribution, labor, and retail outlets enough to keep demand high. We are kind of lacking on the supply side because few people want to work the land. It pays little.

    I’m just saying I think these comments are extremely on topic in terms of lay offs.

  46. 46
    mikal says:

    In many cases it doesn’t matter what the degree obtained was in. Going to college teaches people to think differently. I also hire people for this reason first. Rarely is the job in exactly the field studied. Comparing us now to the thirties is like comparing the thirties to the times of the revolution..

  47. 47
    David McManus says:

    I think employers will adjust their requirements when they realize that very few people can afford a $60K college degree.

    Everyone can pay for college. It’s called a student loan and everyone can get them. It’s probably the only type of debt that I don’t have too much of a problem with.

  48. 48
    anna says:

    I may be an old foggy, but when i went to private college in mid 90s, tuition and board were at 25k/year, i got total student loan of 16k for 4 years, the rest are covered by grants and some parental contribution. I didn’t end up getting job/career in the field originally studied (entry level salary at 45k/year), but the education and learning/maturing experience was worth it, especially given I can pay back the loan within 1 year if I follow an aggressive schedule.

    Now the same private college charges 40k/year for tuition/board, and i hear of people ending up with 100k for 4year education. But are they getting the double entry level salary? No way! Is the 4-year education really worth 5-10 years of hard work and saving to pay back the loan? I doubt it. If having to make the choice, I’d not have gone to college today.

    I suspect the government loan bubble artificially inflated the tuition price well above general inflation, and I’ve not seen any alternative explanation for this run-up.

  49. 49
    David Losh says:

    “I suspect the government loan bubble artificially inflated the tuition price well above general inflation, and I’ve not seen any alternative explanation for this run-up.” comment #48

    My God, thank you for the observation. Education is truly the best example of credit inflating prices. Teachers are paid about the same, class rooms are over crowded, the faciluities are in disrepair, and yet the price of education keeps going up.

    In college to get a business degree it would take me four years, it was cheap, but four years. Talking to my Economics professor I learned he made less than I did as a contractor.

    In addition he wanted to talk to me about Real Estate investing in the 1970s.

    A degree can do a lot for people who have the ability to utilize the education, many people are dedicated to the field they chose. Some people are simply fulfilling obligations they think they have and our society feeds that.

  50. 50
    DavidB says:

    College is an investment and everyone should consider their major carefully so they have a good chance of getting job when they’re finished that will give them a decent rate of return on their investment. Unfortunately, I don’t think many people think much about this when they choose their majors.

    When I was in college we use to laugh about some of the women who were there to get their MRS degree. I suspect that’s still the case for some today for both sexes!

  51. 51
    FreedomLover says:

    Can anyone tell me of a case where a person took on $60K in student debt and EVER paid it off? I think it’s not worth it.

  52. 52
    The Tim says:

    Well, I had nearly $40k when I finished college in 2002, and I paid the last of it off in less than four years.

    But eliminating debt was a top priority in my budget, and I am well aware that I am sadly atypical in that regard.

  53. 53
    Objectivity says:

    From above: “Everyone can pay for college. It’s called a student loan and everyone can get them. It’s probably the only type of debt that I don’t have too much of a problem with.”

    This is not true. Student loans are becoming more and more difficult to obtain. Its better than batter because they can not be discharged with bankruptcy, but lenders are still less willing than in the past.

  54. 54
    Groundhogday says:

    Multiple reasons for rising tuition:

    1) State subsidies have been declining nationally since the early 1980’s. When state institutions charge more, this allows privates to also charge more and still be competitive.
    2) Student lending has become more liberal.
    3) Education is a labor intensive service. Prices for all labor intensive services have gone up at a rate greater than inflation. (Perhaps lecture delivery could be done to a greater extent on line at a much lower cost? Universities haven’t really changed the fundamental model for a hundred years.)
    4) Admin costs have ballooned. In part this is due to more and more reporting requirements, unfunded mandates, etc… But I suspect it is mainly due to adoption of the corporate model for higher education.

    The really sad thing is that despite more and more kids going to college, fewer and fewer opt for the more technical degrees we need as a society. Engineering and science have both suffered enrollment declines over the past 20 years.

  55. 55
    Jonness says:

    My advice to those who did not prepare themselves for this recession:

    a. Stop living beyond your means right now and forever.
    b. Appreciate other people when they do things for you and do your best to return the favor.
    c. Things are relative. Who is happier, a middle-class person who has his health and a nice family, or a rich person who is sorely lacking in health and in obtaining his insatiable desires?
    d. This is a learning experience. Don’t get too caught up in what others think of you. Learn to survive.
    e. This too shall pass. You will cycle back up, and when you do, you will be more prepared for the subsequent crash. One thing is for certain, once you’ve really learned what it’s like to go without, you will never live in an unprepared manner again.
    f. Surround yourself with people who are on your side and would like to see you do well. Break off all toxic relationships.
    g. Put together a realistic 10-year-plan and start building it today. Get up each day and do everything in your power to advance your position in that plan until you are no longer in hardship.

  56. 56
    David McManus says:

    Objectivity // Jan 10, 2009 at 2:33 pm

    From above: “Everyone can pay for college. It’s called a student loan and everyone can get them. It’s probably the only type of debt that I don’t have too much of a problem with.”

    This is not true. Student loans are becoming more and more difficult to obtain. Its better than batter because they can not be discharged with bankruptcy, but lenders are still less willing than in the past.

    Sorry, but your rebuttal is not true. Maybe student loans from a bank are becoming more difficult to obtain, but student loans from the Feds are easy to get as long as you have filled out all the paperwork. We have two kids (in laws) who just started this past fall and they didn’t have any problems whatsoever. I had 25K when I graduated in 99 (now paid off) and my wife has about 10K left on hers from when she graduated in 07. To the person called “Freedom Lover” who said “Can anyone tell me of a case where a person took on $60K in student debt and EVER paid it off?” the answer is YES, plenty. I have friends who are doctors with 100K each in student debt and they aren’t having any trouble either.
    It’s called smart budgeting.

  57. 57

    […] Note that the 10,000 is a total that includes the 4,500 announced a few weeks ago. […]

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