Mid-Week Open Thread (2012-01-04)

Here is your open thread for the mid-week on January 4th, 2012. You may post random links and off-topic discussions here. Also, if you have an idea or a topic you’d like to see covered in an article, please make it known.

Be sure to also check out the forums, and get your word in the user-driven discussions there!

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About The Tim

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market. Tim also hosts the weekly improv comedy sci-fi podcast Dispatches from the Multiverse.

64 comments:

  1. 1

    Let’s Start the New Year off on a Positive Tone

    Let’s be pragmatic, there hasn’t been a big bad news story out all of 2011, except for the holdover unemployment, Japanese crisis and normal verbal threats from the Mideast….we’ve been fairly stable and should be thankful for the optimistic outlook.

  2. 2

    RE: softwarengineer @ 1 – You forgot bird flu!

    Personally I think we need a good pandemic, one that kills off 50-75% of the world’s population. As long as societies didn’t collapse, that would be great. Carbon emissions would plummet. Oil, gas and electricity would become dirt cheap. Kids born after the pandemic would need to Google “traffic” to know what the word means. And we could start neighborhood beautification projects which would convert adjoining split entry house into park areas.

    It would be bad news though for Boeing, causing local housing prices to plummet more than in other areas. Neither Airbus nor Boeing would need to build another plane for 20 years, as over half the existing planes would be parked in the desert.

  3. 3

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2

    Yeah, the Bird Flu Scare?

    The actual domestic deathrate of that “gun with blanks” wasn’t even a minor flu breakout.

    Nope Kary, its been a really blah year for big bad news stories.

  4. 4
    Blurtman says:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 1 – It’s a bit relative. Plus between the subliminal brain scrubbing internet programs and residual anti-depressants in our drinking water, everyone is becoming comfortably numb.

  5. 5

    Here’s some good news from 2012. Only 15% of those attending the Iowa caucuses were nutcases!

  6. 6

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2

    Tim, You Must Know

    Why would someone vote against a blogger who is just giving out the innocuous news, the Bird Flu didn’t kill hardly anyone in America?

    Its time to name names Tim, if we’re gonna vote like gangsters who are the gangsters?

    Or shelve the voting, its a complete joke [and just a political whim toy]?

  7. 7
    Blurtman says:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 6 – Nobody loves you but your mother, and she could be jiving you, too.

  8. 8

    RE: softwarengineer @ 6 – That one very well could be simply someone not liking my attempt at humor.

    Or maybe it’s the same person who voted against post 5–a Perry and/or Bachmann supporter.

  9. 9

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 8

    Probably Kary

    When Bachman stated that Gay marriages were the biggest issue facing America the last three decades I knew something was anomalous.

  10. 10

    RE: Blurtman @ 7

    If the Mystery Negative Voter Had a Backbone

    He/she would identify themselves and blog/defend their attack on our innocuous blogs, rather than the spineless method, vote incognito.

    If that’s my enemy, hades, thank God :-)

  11. 11
    Pegasus says:

    Income inequality driven by Bush tax cuts, capital gains

    The rich have gotten richer, thanks to the stock market and the Bush tax cuts, a recent report has found.
    Growth in income from capital gains and dividends has widened the divide between the wealthy and the poor in recent years, according to the non-partisan Congressional Research Service. It supplanted wage inequality as the primary driver of the growing income gap, which helped spur the Occupy Wall Street movement last fall.
    After-tax income for the top 1% of taxpayers soared 74%, on average, between 1996 and 2006. The top 0.1% benefited even more, nearly doubling their income over that decade.
    By comparison, the bottom 20% of taxpayers saw their income fall by 6%, while the middle quintile experienced a meager 10% gain.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/income-inequality-driven-bush-tax-165200088.html

  12. 12

    RE: Pegasus @ 11 – I think that’s based on the same CBO report we were discussing last week. Note the stat you quote is based on 2006 data. If memory serves correctly, a few things have happened in the economy since 2006. /sarc

  13. 13

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 12

    I Agree With You Kary

    On Pegasus’ side is the fact that finding clean/average household income data without top 1% upward skewing is like finding a needle in the search engine haystack….also, many government reports on household income impacts don’t come out until years after the fact too, leaving the data gatherer somewhat empty handed.

    And to you mystery negative thumb voter about to rate me downward, please take the time to find recent/average household income without top 1% [or even top 10%] upward skewing in any data base. Otherwise vote me negative you incognito troll.

  14. 14
    Pegasus says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 12 – Based on the data and information that we have seen since 2006 it is more than likely that the disparity in incomes has gotten worse. We know the economic nightmares of the past few years have impacted the lower incomes more thus it would seem that would additionally validate the points of the article rather than detract.

  15. 15

    By softwarengineer @ 13:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 12

    I Agree With You Kary

    On Pegasus’ side is the fact that finding clean/average household income data without top 1% upward skewing is like finding a needle in the search engine haystack….also, many government reports on household income impacts don’t come out until years after the fact too, leaving the data gatherer somewhat empty handed.

    And to you mystery negative thumb voter about to rate me downward, please take the time to find recent/average household income without top 1% [or even top 10%] upward skewing in any data base. Otherwise vote me negative you incognito troll.

    I don’t think everyone is is really giving thumbs up or thumbs down to the post they just read, but rather the person that just posted. for example, you might have posted something insightful, brilliant, or hilarious, but the reader may have already seen enough of your posts they disagreed with to judge even your breathing as a negative thing, so they’ll give you a thumbs down even if you post something worthy of a Pulitzer Prize. It’s supposed to be fun, and the anonymity is supposed to make it more fun. Of course we all want to get a bunch of thumbs up and a post shaded yellow. But do you really care what other people think? A lot of people just don’t want to click one way or the other. Just because you post something that gets a lot of thumbs down votes doesn’t mean you haven’t posted something worth reading. It doesn’t even mean that people disagree with what you’ve just said. It either means that people disagree or are annoyed with previous posts of yours( in your case, I recall people stating that you were making too big of a deal over immigration), or feel that you post too much( I’m not mentioning names), or are trying to promote yourself( any real estate agent here.)

  16. 16

    RE: Pegasus @ 14 – Possibly, although keep in mind that a number of people have probably dropped out of the top 1% entirely (e.g. they owned WAMU stock, and worked very high up in WAMU), and that could affect the results downward.

    Also, I would add to the extent you’re dealing with tax data you could have unrealized losses, unrecognized losses or deferred losses (e.g. capital gains) affect the result. Thus you could have someone earn $5M in 2006, $6M in 2011, but have their net worth decline by 30M from 2009 to 2011. They would still show as being better off.

  17. 17

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 16

    Yes Kary

    The number of millionaires in America is shrinking, albeit so is the bottom 90% of incomes. Sounds like a possible washout, but again, the recent data that isn’t all mixed up together by income groups isn’t available easily, especially recent data by income group.

  18. 18

    RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 15

    That Means John Kennedy, Martin King and Richard Nixon Would be Given Thumbs Down Too by the Same Raters

    They were all for depopulation in America supporting Earthday decades ago. BTW, this could be accomplished with some mitigated immigration too, it would just require a far smaller domestic birthrate [less than 1.0] to get adequate results in like 50 years though, and IMO, makes it almost impossible to dream as a possibility for enlarging American wages and hence, real estate investments for coming generations.

    I will most likely get many down thumbs for this blog Ira, but ethics doesn’t care about such trivialities. Like Abraham Lincoln once said, “The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present. As our case is new, so we must think anew, and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves, and then we shall save our country.”
    Lincoln’s Annual Message to Congress, December 1, 1862

  19. 19
    Pegasus says:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 17 – We know for a fact that In 2007, the bottom 60% of Americans had 65% of their net worth tied up in their homes. The top 1%, in contrast, had just 10%. How do you think that worked out since housing is down about 35 percent? It is an asset loss but many times it also affects income in the long run. Let’s not forget the rising tide of people on food stamps. The requirements are based on how little income receive. Those are fairly current numbers. The poverty income level and low wage earners has risen dramatically in the recent past. Still want to argue that the disparity is not increasing?

  20. 20
    Blurtman says:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 18 – How about three thumbs down and your keyboard gives you an electric shock?

  21. 21
    Blurtman says:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 17 – Being a millionaire in the days of Milburn Drysdale (Beverly Hillbillies) was a big deal. Now, 40 years later, not so much. If you might like to live off of interest in 30 year US Treasuries, $2 million gets you about $60k a year.

  22. 22

    RE: Pegasus @ 19

    Yes Pegasus

    The current data isn’t there to support your allegation(s), so what, in our hearts and minds we know its true.

    Mr Buffet has lost billions in the stock market, so what, he has many billions more in reserve. The Bible chastices the Pharasees for clinking their large haughty offerrings in public, yet the poor old lady who gave hardly nothing [but it was her food money] in secret was put on a pedestal of honor for her generosity.

  23. 23

    RE: Blurtman @ 20

    Yes Blurtman

    I suggested to Tim that we mimic the Stein Report website, which allows bloggers to choose to like the blog and additionally identifies their handles/names too….no incognito votes against, but identified votes for good blogs. It works well and it reminds us all that we blog frequently the same sort of stuff sometimes over and over again…..this reduces the votes of approval, its not new stuff, like too much immigration from SWE.

  24. 24
    Blurtman says:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 23 – I dunno, I don’t get bent out of shape one way or the other about it.

    How about four thumbs down, and your spouse finds a pile of ashes where you were sitting? Five, and you are transformed into George W. Bush.

  25. 25

    RE: Blurtman @ 21

    We’re Worried About Social Security Going Bankrupt With This 2% Drop in Social Security Contributions the Last Two Years

    IMO, this is hugely mitigated by the Baby Boomers not having enough retirement cash [after age 50, its only like $27K per household avg] and many will work until they die [?], not drawing off Social Security until they have to. This will help keep Social Security funds flusher with like 1-2% 401Ks.

  26. 26
    Blurtman says:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 25 – It is a bit frightening. As discussed, the number of folks filing for SS disability, a separate program, has increased drammatically. I guess the idea is that you may always have access to food, via food stamps, but may not have a fantastic life by US standards, and may work till you drop if you are able. And the access to food stamps is dependent on always changing politics.

    When I discussed this with friends from India, they didn’t really blink an eye, saying that in other countries, this is not abnormal.

    The US standard of living is dropping. IMHO, the Repubs object to the social safety net as it lessens the impact of the lash of the whip; blunts the ability to have power over your very survival that the lords strive for. This is afterall, how to wring the value out of labor as a capitalist. You don’t work for me, you don’t eat, unless you are a banker.

  27. 27

    Another Seattle Area Topic

    Boeing Wichita to close its plant by the end of 2013, due to shifting modification work to Texas. Boeing Wichita was suppose to grow over 7000 jobs because of the Tanker Contract, that’s gone now.

    So, will Everett get some of the 7000 lost jobs from Wichita? Yes, the news from Boeing is unclear where most of the 7000 lost Wichita jobs will end up, article:

    “….Puget Sound is expected to get about 200 jobs as the modification work on the new Air Force refueling tanker is moved from Wichita to the current 767 production line Everett. It will now be built and modified there. Other Wichita work will be transferred to Boeing’s plant in San Antonio. Boeing is consolidating its defense operations to make them more efficient and to handle the cuts being made by the federal government. [21] …”

    http://newsfeedresearcher.com/data/articles_b1_2/boeing-wichita-company.html#hdng0

    Oklahoma City got the Sonics, they’re slated on getting the 100 Tanker engineers from Wichita too. Again, I’ll repeat myself, in this era of federal deficit limits and such, IMO, the Tanker isn’t going forward until we see body sections assembled in Everett on TV. See to believe folks IMO.

  28. 28
    ricklind says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 2:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 1 – You forgot bird flu!

    Personally I think we need a good pandemic, one that kills off 50-75% of the world’s population. As long as societies didn’t collapse, that would be great. Carbon emissions would plummet. Oil, gas and electricity would become dirt cheap. Kids born after the pandemic would need to Google “traffic” to know what the word means. And we could start neighborhood beautification projects which would convert adjoining split entry house into park areas.

    It would be bad news though for Boeing, causing local housing prices to plummet more than in other areas. Neither Airbus nor Boeing would need to build another plane for 20 years, as over half the existing planes would be parked in the desert.

    OK. I will quote Kary and give him a thumbs up in recognition that this is a mix of ironic, fatalistic and sarconic humor, and Kary has been accused of being humorless. This is not true. He is just a cynic.

    And I think he wails at the most probable outcome of a 50-75% mortality pandemic.
    Not sayin’ for you, Kary, just sayin’.

    Folks, here’s to a better 2012.

  29. 29
    Natalia Orinko says:

    RE: ricklind @ 28

    I too vote for a pandemic. But can’t we wait for my child-bearing years to be over?? I mean, I want to leave some babies first!!

  30. 30
    Tatiana_Kalashnikov says:

    RE: Natalia Orinko @ 29

    Natasha, my sweet cousin. Our family has been waiting for your babies for some time!! Just have some!! A pandemic is coming. You need to stop talking and get your genes out there.

    My apologies for Natasha (Natalia). She can be a little slow.

  31. 31

    RE: ricklind @ 28 – What? Me cynical? ;-)

    Per Google:

    1. Believing that people are motivated by self-interest; distrustful of human sincerity or integrity.

    2. Doubtful as to whether something will happen or is worthwhile.

    I think #2 fits me more than #1, but #1 isn’t that far off. #1 fits a lot of us here.

    Thanks for resurrecting my post.

  32. 32
    pfft says:

    Just a note. when my comments are “greyed” I just won’t respond to whatever people say about that comment. no point really.

    good job tim!

  33. 33
    pfft says:

    By Pegasus @ 11:

    Income inequality driven by Bush tax cuts, capital gains

    The rich have gotten richer, thanks to the stock market and the Bush tax cuts, a recent report has found.
    Growth in income from capital gains and dividends has widened the divide between the wealthy and the poor in recent years, according to the non-partisan Congressional Research Service. It supplanted wage inequality as the primary driver of the growing income gap, which helped spur the Occupy Wall Street movement last fall.
    After-tax income for the top 1% of taxpayers soared 74%, on average, between 1996 and 2006. The top 0.1% benefited even more, nearly doubling their income over that decade.
    By comparison, the bottom 20% of taxpayers saw their income fall by 6%, while the middle quintile experienced a meager 10% gain.

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/income-inequality-driven-bush-tax-165200088.html

    ENACT THE ROMNEY RULE!

  34. 34
    pfft says:

    who would have guessed? contractionary economic policies are contractionary.

    Spain says deficit bigger than expected, hikes taxes
    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2011/12/30/uk-spain-cuts-idUKTRE7BT00C20111230

    who raises taxes in a recession? good god.

    austerity doesn’t work. the unemployment rate in spain is over 22% and they are RAISING TAXES and cutting! how stupid is that?

  35. 35
    Scotsman says:

    RE: pfft @ 31

    Thank you Jesus!!

    There is a God, and his name is “The Greying Tim.”

  36. 36
    Scotsman says:

    RE: pfft @ 33

    Austerity isn’t a choice, it’s a consequence. Kind of like saying “insolvency doesn’t work.” That will be the next phase. Duh.

    But we’re supposed to believe spending money you don’t have, even printing it up out of thin air without anything to back it up does? How does that “work” when the currency then becomes worthless? Is everything just free then? Does the guy with the most guns and ammo win?

    If so, bring it.

  37. 37
    Scotsman says:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 23

    Don’t worry about it- be yourself, write what you feel, be part of the whole, don’t try to blend in. I read ya. Yeah, I’m not sold on your ideas re: population dynamics but there is other good stuff. Relax.

  38. 38
    One Eyed Man says:

    By Blurtman @ 24:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 23 – I dunno, I don’t get bent out of shape one way or the other about it.

    How about four thumbs down, and your spouse finds a pile of ashes where you were sitting? Five, and you are transformed into George W. Bush.

    Maybe the bloggers avatar could be transformed to depict that. 4 thumbs down and your ash, 5 thumbs down and your an ash-hole.

  39. 39
    The Tim says:

    FYI, I’m tweaking the thumbs-up and thumbs-down threshold levels for getting the yellow highlight, the fade, or the red highlight. It now takes a higher amount of voting to change a comment’s formatting.

  40. 40
    Pegasus says:

    U.S. Gasoline Use Sinks 14% to Seven-Year Low

    U.S. gasoline demand sank 14 percent from the prior week to the lowest level in more than seven years of records, according to MasterCard Inc.

    Drivers bought 8.16 million barrels a day of gasoline in the week ended Dec. 30, down from 9.46 million the week before, according to MasterCard’s SpendingPulse report. MasterCard’s data goes back to July 2004.

    Fuel use fell below a year earlier for the 18th consecutive time last week, slipping 3 percent from 2010 levels. Fuel demand over the previous four weeks was 3.4 percent below a year earlier, the 41st consecutive decline in that measure.

    http://www.businessweek.com/news/2012-01-05/u-s-gasoline-use-sinks-14-to-seven-year-low-mastercard-says.html

  41. 41

    RE: Pegasus @ 40 – That would explain two things:

    1. Why we’re now a net exporter of refined oil products.

    2. Why government is either increasing gasoline taxes or collecting less in gasoline taxes.

    On that latter topic it’s somewhat odd to me that governments offer tax breaks for electric and hybrid vehicles which use less or even no gasoline subject to taxes.

  42. 42

    An interesting “open thread” tidbit: Aurora Loan Services earlier today pulled all of their listings off the market, about 100 in King Co. and another 50 in SnoCo. At least that’s what I heard “on the street” when my clients where interested in one of them.

  43. 43
    Blurtman says:

    Local Biotech Flash: Dendreon stock up 40% on positive revenue news.

  44. 44
    Blurtman says:

    RE: Scotsman @ 36 – Interesting question. Fiat currency is only paper. You might be able to start a fire with it if you are lost in the woods, but it does not have much inherent value.

    Those of you living near NYC may remember in the early ’70’s the wealthy trustafarian hippie type giving away large amounts of money to anyone. His famiy had him put away. Come to think of it, he kind of resembled a younger Kary. Hmmmm…

    Fiat currency’s value is relative to what you can trade it for. How many pieces of fiat currency do you need to trade for a Lexus? For gold? For other fiat currency? It’s value is also apparently related to supply and demand which I find hard to fathom as these days, the market must be flooded with dollars. But if you seek US Treasuries, you need to buy them with US dollars, so maybe that is propping up the dollar relative to other currencies.

    I like gold, but again, what is its inherent value? Can’t eat it. Unlike silver or copper, doesn’t have much use industrially. But gold does have cultural and historical momentum and can’t directly be printed. Over the long run, you can trade the same amount of gold for more and more US dollars.

    So here is the solution, Scotsman. We borrow more and more by issuing more and more Treasuries, and the Fed buys up the more and more Treasuries. Soon, no one has to work anymore. Then the Jets win the Super Bowl. And then the Rapture begins, and you realize too late that the pilots of the 747-400 you are on are devout Christians.

  45. 45

    RE: Craig Blackmon @ 42 – I’m not seeing that at all, at least in King County.

    But if it is true, maybe they saw the other thread and are taking all their business to either WaLaw or $500 Realty!

  46. 46

    By Blurtman @ 44:

    Over the long run, you can trade the same amount of gold for more and more US dollars..

    Is there a National Association of Gold Dealers, and if so, are you a member? ;-)

  47. 47
    Sparky says:

    RE: Blurtman @ 44
    http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/02/15/131430755/a-chemist-explains-why-gold-beat-out-lithium-osmium-einsteinium

    In a pinch, I’d rather have a sandwich than gold, but that article touched on why gold was an early currency choice.

  48. 48

    RE: Sparky @ 47 – Excellent article! Thanks.

  49. 49
    Pegasus says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 48 – Geez just when we are starting to see ads about lithium becoming the new gold! I am pretty sure Kary is pretty familiar with using lithium since lithium is used to treat mania in a bipolar disorder.

  50. 50
    Tatiana_Kalashnikov says:

    RE: Pegasus @ 49

    Your comment seems so hurtful Mr. Pegasus. In the old Soviet Union such a comment would put Mr. Kary in the psych gulag. I think perhaps he is just exercising his free speech?? Tatiana and our extended family moved here for this rights. But on the other hand you too are doing free speech. Such a conundrum! My apologies, I learned a new English word today.

  51. 51
    Natalia Orinko says:

    Tatiana you silly cousin. You used a new word but had English mistakes all over the place! These nice people’s expect more from us. Remember the rules about tense and firsts person, etc.

  52. 52
    Pegasus says:

    RE: Tatiana_Kalashnikov @ 50 – Sometimes the truth is painful. Poor Kary….off to the psych gulag. Thanks Tatiana. You made my day….whether you realize it or not….

  53. 53

    By Pegasus @ 49:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 48 – Geez just when we are starting to see ads about lithium becoming the new gold! I am pretty sure Kary is pretty familiar with using lithium since lithium is used to treat mania in a bipolar disorder.

    You’ve already admitted you’re nothing but a troll.

    https://seattlebubble.com/blog/2012/01/02/the-tims-top-ten-of-twenty-eleven/comment-page-1/#comment-153139

    No need to prove it over and over. We get it. You’re a pathetic troll.

  54. 54
    pfft says:

    By Scotsman @ 35:

    RE: pfft @ 31

    Thank you Jesus!!

    There is a God, and his name is “The Greying Tim.”

    I won’t be able to correct you so you’ll be a low-info voter.

  55. 55
    Pegasus says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 53 – Hehehe. You continually prove that you are nothing but an egotistical maniacal misfit. Off to the “psych gulag” for you! Don’t forget to take your lithium tonight!

  56. 56
    pfft says:

    By Scotsman @ 36:

    RE: pfft @ 33

    Austerity isn’t a choice, it’s a consequence. Kind of like saying “insolvency doesn’t work.” That will be the next phase. Duh.

    But we’re supposed to believe spending money you don’t have, even printing it up out of thin air without anything to back it up does? How does that “work” when the currency then becomes worthless? Is everything just free then? Does the guy with the most guns and ammo win?

    If so, bring it.

    why do you default to the worst possible scenario. how is austerity doing for bond yields? not very good. keynes shows that if you let private spending collapse you are in even more debt as tax revenue collapses.

    if the currency falls that is actually a good thing. it stimulates exports and therefore the economy. see iceland.

    a lot of people who want austerity also want the gold standard. the problem with the gold standard is massive domestic deflation of real estate, wages and the general price level is needed. that isn’t working for most of europe.

    why is adding a few percentage points of GDP of debt the worst thing ever? I don’t understand. show your work.

  57. 57
    pfft says:

    By Blurtman @ 44:

    RE: Scotsman @ 36 – Interesting question. Fiat currency is only paper. You might be able to start a fire with it if you are lost in the woods, but it does not have much inherent value.

    Those of you living near NYC may remember in the early ’70’s the wealthy trustafarian hippie type giving away large amounts of money to anyone. His famiy had him put away. Come to think of it, he kind of resembled a younger Kary. Hmmmm…

    Fiat currency’s value is relative to what you can trade it for. How many pieces of fiat currency do you need to trade for a Lexus? For gold? For other fiat currency? It’s value is also apparently related to supply and demand which I find hard to fathom as these days, the market must be flooded with dollars. But if you seek US Treasuries, you need to buy them with US dollars, so maybe that is propping up the dollar relative to other currencies.

    I like gold, but again, what is its inherent value? Can’t eat it. Unlike silver or copper, doesn’t have much use industrially. But gold does have cultural and historical momentum and can’t directly be printed. Over the long run, you can trade the same amount of gold for more and more US dollars.

    So here is the solution, Scotsman. We borrow more and more by issuing more and more Treasuries, and the Fed buys up the more and more Treasuries. Soon, no one has to work anymore. Then the Jets win the Super Bowl. And then the Rapture begins, and you realize too late that the pilots of the 747-400 you are on are devout Christians.

    gold’s value lies in it’s chemistry.

    “So here is the solution, Scotsman. We borrow more and more by issuing more and more Treasuries, and the Fed buys up the more and more Treasuries. Soon, no one has to work anymore”

    why can’t we ever a reasonable discussion about QE and stimulus. nobody really benefits from the discussion when every scenario ends up with hyperinflation.

    here is what happens. the government issues bonds to fill the output gap. this actually puts debt at a lower levels that it would have if the economy goes off a cliff and and tax revenues plunge.

    does anyone think that if we let the banking system collapse and 2 car companies collapse we’d be better off?

    this is all useless as US bond yields have plunged. the market has made it’s judgement that stimulus wasn’t bad.

  58. 58
    Pegasus says:

    RE: pfft @ 57 – “this is all useless as US bond yields have plunged. the market has made it’s judgement that stimulus wasn’t bad.”

    So…there is no manipulation of yields? Are you an idiot? Oh I forgot….you are. When the FED controls interest rates and says they will not raise them for years how is that a “real” market? It isn’t …fool.

  59. 59
  60. 60
    Blurtman says:

    RE: Sparky @ 47 – The smart money is in sea shells.

  61. 61
    Blurtman says:

    RE: pfft @ 57 – I am driving a black Dodge Challenger rental car in LA. I wear my Trooper shades and play War’s The Cisco Kid very loudly. Next time I rent the Camaro. Maybe the Doors for that one. Or Hot Tuna.

    The auto company bailouts were a stroke of genius. China has got nothing on these US muscle machines. Thanks, Mr. President!

  62. 62
    Pegasus says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 59 – Losing it again? Take that lithium and get a good night’s sleep before you completely explode and have to go through anger management…..again?

  63. 63
    ChrisM says:

    RE: pfft @ 57 – I’m not sure I understand your position – you state
    “does anyone think that if we let the banking system collapse and 2 car companies collapse we’d be better off?”

    I believe we’d be better off if the moral hazard was eliminated by having the lending entities that permitted such loans to have their capital wiped out.

    Do you disagree?

    If so, at what point do you cease the defense of such activities? I fancy myself an advocate of capitalism, so I’d prefer that failures meet their doom. Do you disagree? If so, why?

  64. 64
    One Eyed Man says:

    RE: Blurtman @ 61

    Oh Ya – Hot Tuna – the acoustic stuff –

    “a nickel is a nickel and a dime is a dime”

    but even more important than money to a young man, “how long do I have to wait?”

    The Hesitation Blues

    http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=hot+tuna&mid=1682A4C7F47637F23C631682A4C7F47637F23C63&view=detail&FORM=VIRE2

    – Fiat currency (debt) keeps people from having to wait. It’s probably a necessary evil to promote economic efficiency through specialization and trade. A gold standard may have less risk (more stability), but it probably slows down commerce. Debt facilitates trade and specialization and the increased productivity (and consumption) of our society so that I don’t have to build my own pointless 3D TV.

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