Tim Speaking at Crista Senior Living this Friday

Tim Speaking at Crista Senior Living this FridayThis Friday I’ll be giving a presentation on the current state of the real estate market at Crista Senior Living’s Cristwood Park in Shoreline.

The content of my talk will be tailored to an audience that has owned their homes for quite a while and are trying to figure out a real estate strategy to maximize their ability to enjoy their golden years.

The event will be at 10:00 AM on Friday, May 4th at the Cristwood Park Dining Room. If you’re interested in attending, please RSVP with Crista at 206.546.7565 or info@cristaseniors.com

For my regular readers who aren’t quite in the potential audience for this presentation, I’d be curious to hear your thoughts: What’s the most important thing you would share with this group if you had the chance to speak to them about real estate?

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About The Tim

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market. Tim also hosts the weekly improv comedy sci-fi podcast Dispatches from the Multiverse.

41 comments:

  1. 1
    Xizor says:

    Tell them how to avoid capital gains on the same of their principal residence to move to the senior home or otherwise to leave the senior home (if it is an equity situation) and go to a nursing home. by this I mean the requirment to occupy the home as a principal residence two out of the last five years.

  2. 2

    This market is probably the best market in four years for that type of seller. There’s so little inventory that buyers are more willing to overlook dated interiors. They won’t get 5 year ago prices, but they should get a buyer if the house is in decent condition.

    The other thing I would explain to them is that 1 and 1.5 bathroom homes are not very popular, so when they’re looking at comps, look at 1.5 and less if they are 1.5 or less, and 1.75 or more if they are 1.75 or more.

    Finally, make sure they get an agent that understands short sales and REOs sell for less than homes with equity. They don’t want to sell at a discount if they don’t have to.

  3. 3
    Pegasus says:

    Tell that the there is no gold in the term “Golden Years”. The good news is that they can expect to experience sex until they die with the unrestrained fraudulent American financial system in place. I just hope they enjoy anal.

  4. 4

    Tell them to watch out for anyone calling themselves Pegasus! ;-)

  5. 5
    Evelyn says:

    Hi Tim,
    I enjoy reading your blog every day. I would like to hear this talk because I am approaching retirement so I hope you will post the content or have this talk again on a weekend. My current plan is to stay in my house until I’m hauled off. I am setting up my yard for food production including delivery of two truckloads of compost. Seems to make sense but I would like to hear other ideas.

  6. 6
    Joe says:

    RE: Pegasus @ 3

    I don’t think Pegasus’ comment is appropriate. It’s too crude in the context of this site.

  7. 7
    The Tim says:

    RE: Joe @ 6 – Agreed, not interested in that kind of vulgar imagery. I’ve already got some word filters in place on the comments. I’ve added a few more to address that comment.

  8. 8

    Warn the Elderly To Mange their Real Estate as Any Investment

    Keep the wolves out of the chicken coop. Reverse mortgage wolves come to mind.

    No one knows how long they’ll live needing nursing home care; but decent ones range in the $5-7K/mo range….sell the home, cash out when you need it….another option is keep the home and let your healthy spouse care for you or a child willing to take it on “fulltime” if necessary….the home could be signed off to the new spouse or executor child care giver if needed [they should have power of attorney too].

    Best advice here, keep the home’s principle debt free and use it as nursing home money or bartering later if you live a long time after sicknesses. Keep your options open.

  9. 9
    robotslave says:

    Tim, I don’t have any advice for seniors, but I do have a bit of advice for anyone talking to them about real estate:

    Remember that a lot of them want to leave their homes to their children.

    If you think you’re going to be talking to a group that’s reluctant to sell mainly because the market is weak, and you just need to supply some sound information and financial reasoning to shake some more good properties onto the market, well, think again.

  10. 10
    jesus christ says:

    It would be great if more homes stayed in the family, that is how real wealth is preserved for future generations.

  11. 11

    I assume that Crista Senior Living is not inexpensive. Studio apartments in retirement communities tend to start at about 2200 a month, with any assisted living costs extra. My father lives in a retirement community, and I spend lots of time there. Most of the people at the presentation you’re giving already live there, and most of them want to stay there, in the retirement community. If some of these people are youngish old, in good shape, they could potentially continue to live there for years. There are people at my dad’s place who have lived there 15, 17 years. So I’m guessing that some of the people there are going to have to put their homes on the market. But I really have no idea what you should tell them. I have the built in BS detector when dealing with real estate agents, but that comes with experience. You can’t just say ” Stay away from the shyster agents.”
    If the home they have to sell is in a sought after location, it’s likely to sell pretty quickly these days, especially if the price isn’t way out of line. A skilled, honest, experienced listing agent would be invaluable. Like the existing inventory of nice houses for sale, too bad they’re in such short supply.

  12. 12
    David Losh says:

    Number one is to stay at home for as long as possible, but if they have decided that they are in a good place at Crista, and I think they are, then they should consider setting up a family trust.

    I would normally say sell the home, and divide the money, but the way things are going you never know. If you leave the family home to one person it gets complicated with emotions.

    Crista also has a program, I think, where you can leave the home to Crista. I’m not sure about that, but that may be a good deal.

    For sure they want to deplete the estate, one way, or another. If the expenses of medical treatment become a factor there are mechanism that can attach assets. They want resources without the threat to the family estate.

    Does that give you enough to work from?

    We, of course believe that we should care for our parents, and we do. My wife’s parents live with us, and my father, and step mother are in assisted living, but we help support that. We do think about taking them back home every month when the bills are being paid. There is a point where the cost of home care is equal to the cost of assisted living. They are in a facility that has social aspects, so that is a good thing. We keep the family homes as options, but again, I would encourage investigating a trust.

  13. 13
    HappyRenter says:

    Why does real estate in this country always have to be about buying and selling? If you really love your home, why not living there as long as possible? If you can’t make it to pay all the bills, how about renting out part of the house? Or even better, rent it for free or low cost to somebody who would be willing to take care of the yard and do maintenance work, or be their care giver, e.g., cook for them and do the household.

    I would be interested in hearing comments about this: Is renting part of your home to generate some income a good idea?

  14. 14

    RE: HappyRenter @ 13 – I had a good friend who did that for years, renting out rooms in his house, and he liked it. He was very social, however, so I think it takes a certain kind of personality to do that.

  15. 15

    RE: David Losh @ 12 – I’m not a big fan of family trusts, but a word of warning. With most older title insurance, basically the “owner’s” policy, your title insurance coverage will terminate when you transfer the property into a trust.

  16. 16
    Keno says:

    Crista is a continuing care retirement community, or CCRC. You move in living independently. If you later need assisted living, Crista provides it. Later, if you need skilled nursing, Crista provides that as well. There are three big advantages to a CCRC, in my opinion. The first is that once you’re in, you don’t have to worry about assisted living or skilled nursing. The second is that you have zero home maintenance. They even replace light bulbs for you. The third, and maybe most important, is the social network that people, especially older people need. CCRC people are plain happier than non-CCRC people.

    The one and only disadvantage (for lots of people) is coming up with the $200,000 or so entrance fee and the $5,000 or so monthly fee. These fees can vary a lot but you get the idea that CCRC’s aren’t inexpensive.

    The solution to this financial disadvantage is to use the equity in your home to get into a CCRC. If I could make my finances work out just a little bit better, I would be in a CCRC myself. They are that good.

    The sad fact is that a lot of older people who could benefit from living in a CCRC just don’t have the finances to do it. A lot of them are wondering if and when they should sell their homes so they can get into a CCRC.

    I hope Tim can provide constructive advice for these people who may be waiting for that next up-bump in home prices.

  17. 17
    Sarah says:

    Can you tell them to be realistic and competitive in their pricing? as someone who is looking to buy, i find that some houses are still priced as if the market has rebounded!!! i say competitive, because everyone in that room will be putting their house on the market, as well as many other retirees so please be fair. and remember, the young people buying your house today are probably not as lucky as you were, in terms of house appreciation and loans, etc., so be fair and competitive…that young person who takes out a big mortgage may be your grandkid!

  18. 18
    Macro Investor says:

    Tim, I know you think the bottom is in, but I hope you don’t tell these people to hold on for better prices. Unfortunately for anyone who’s been thinking that way for 4-5 years, I still think that’s a losing strategy going forward.

    The economy is tip toeing back into recession. Europe is a disaster and that contagion will spread.

    I know you think affordability is near an all time high. But you don’t seem to consider that many (if not most) buyers are tapped out in credit and/or sitting on an underwater property.

    A retiree who needs the cash to live on should sell before fall and keep the funds in federally insured accounts (CD, savings, treasury direct, etc)… Something without counter party risk — nothing from a broker.

  19. 19

    Actually, there are now almost 60 people of retirement age who are signed up to come to the event to hear Tim. They do not live at the community….yet, but they all are interested in the possibility of selling their homes, not leaving them to their families (most folks use their homes to finance their retirement plans) and they also want the truth about the housing market. I am fairly cerain they will be leaving with some great information from our seattlebubbleguru.RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 11

  20. 20

    So far, there are 60 people signed up….all but two are seniors who do not live in the community yet….Tim is a popular guy…Also, retirement living does not have to start when you need care…CRISTA also offers independent retirement options, residential and condo-style living with amenities. RE: Ira Sacharoff @ 11

  21. 21
    Dino Kale says:

    Of interest to seniors:

    Your home is exempt when applying for Medicaid. This means that your house (up to $500,000 in equity) is not counted as an asset when you apply for Medicaid. So you can keep your home and still have Medicaid pay for your nursing home costs.

    You don’t have to sell your house to pay a nursing home before you can get Medicaid.

  22. 22
    Ray pepper says:

    I would tell them many things as both a nurse and a Broker.

    Educate them about the SHAM of real-estate and to never pay more then 500 to LIST. Furthermore as a nurse tell to walk and always drink alot of fluids. Other then that don’t create sadness for them and discuss their depreciating asset while they continue to get older.

  23. 23
    HappyRenter says:

    By Ray pepper @ 17:

    Other then that don’t create sadness for them and discuss their depreciating asset while they continue to get older.

    C’mon! That’s not what the American dream was supposed to look like! ;)

  24. 24
    Pegasus says:

    RE: Ray pepper @ 22 – Sorry Ray but if their brain cells are still working then these are the last people in the world to ignore about their depreciating asset while they grow older. They need to know how badly they are being hosed and what the future may hold for them. Treating them like they are already dead doesn’t cut it. They can probably handle the truth better than the rest of us. Tell them the truth!

  25. 25
    David Losh says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 15RE: HappyRenter @ 13

    You are describing one of the benefits of a larger home. Yes, you can rent out, or trade rent, and meals for in home care.

    The reason for the trust is medical bills that may come up. Too many seniors are bled dry by leaving too much equity on the table. In theory the trust should be for the benefit of the seniors, and managed, if they so choose.

    The comments concerning this “event” by, I think, people associated with Crista are sounding kind of alarming to me.

    My thoughts have always been to maintain the estate. People live by paying into systems that don’t seem to be working out. End of life care seems to be grab fest for those who claim to be caring.

  26. 26

    RE: David Losh @ 25 – This isn’t 19th Century England.

    Also, with all due respect to The Tim, the last thing he should be telling people is to set up a trust or preserve the estate. That’s not his area of expertise. It’s not yours either.

  27. 27
    Sweet Pea says:

    By Keno @ 16:

    Crista is a continuing care retirement community, or CCRC. You move in living independently. If you later need assisted living, Crista provides it. Later, if you need skilled nursing, Crista provides that as well. There are three big advantages to a CCRC, in my opinion. The first is that once you’re in, you don’t have to worry about assisted living or skilled nursing. The second is that you have zero home maintenance. They even replace light bulbs for you. The third, and maybe most important, is the social network that people, especially older people need. CCRC people are plain happier than non-CCRC people.

    The one and only disadvantage (for lots of people) is coming up with the $200,000 or so entrance fee and the $5,000 or so monthly fee. These fees can vary a lot but you get the idea that CCRC’s aren’t inexpensive.

    The solution to this financial disadvantage is to use the equity in your home to get into a CCRC. If I could make my finances work out just a little bit better, I would be in a CCRC myself. They are that good.

    The sad fact is that a lot of older people who could benefit from living in a CCRC just don’t have the finances to do it. A lot of them are wondering if and when they should sell their homes so they can get into a CCRC.

    I hope Tim can provide constructive advice for these people who may be waiting for that next up-bump in home prices.

    Agreed. There are some other places like this in the area. I had one as a client several years ago, and the majority of its residents paid for their buy-in by selling their homes. If I remember correctly, actuarial tables of life expectancy are used to arrive at a total price/cost. When someone kicks the bucket early, the remaining unamortized purchase amount goes to the facility as revenue.

    For most people, this is a conscious trade-off between paying for their retirement and leaving their home or its sale proceeds to their heirs. Likely because they don’t have sufficient other assets saved to pay for their retirement years.

  28. 28

    By Sarah @ 17:

    Can you tell them to be realistic and competitive in their pricing? as someone who is looking to buy, i find that some houses are still priced as if the market has rebounded!!!

    Not sure what market you’re looking in, but in a lot of markets stuff is flying to pending pretty quickly if it is reasonably priced. So yes they do need to be realistic, but they don’t need to be desperate (again depending on the market).

    BTW, one thing I would tell them is to ignore the news which will probably be coming out Friday or Monday about the new NWMLS median. That likely significant increase is more about the very tight supply at the low end (a change in mix) and not an indication of the significant change in values that the number would indicate if you don’t understand the market. What’s still important are your comps and your competition, not some county wide statistic.

  29. 29
    whatsmyname says:

    By Sweet Pea @ 27:

    For most people, this is a conscious trade-off between paying for their retirement and leaving their home or its sale proceeds to their heirs. Likely because they don’t have sufficient other assets saved to pay for their retirement years.

    I’ll tell ya how to make that house pay for your retirement, and ya don’t have to lose it neither: Ya put her up for sale FISBO, see, at slightly overprice. Then when one of them Sarah at 17 types comes along to try and flim flam you with how ya need to practically give it away to some less fortunate young people at some ridiculous price, you say, “All right young missy, that makes sense to me. Come over tomorrow at five and we’ll work out the papers.” Then ya tell her ya need to see her driver license to verify her identity. Now, sir, ya just jot down her address while yer at it.

    Then ya call up yer no good son in law, to have him go over there about five o’clock tomorrow, and get all the good stuff from the house, and load it into his pickup. B&E is no problem for the likes of him. And then you split the proceeds. Ya only got to remember 3 things:

    1. Keep her negotiating at the house for a good 2 hours.
    2. Don’t sign the darn contract.
    3. Keep an eye on that son in law. You know he’s holdin’ out on ya.

    And don’t’ worry about the “buyer”. She’d a done the same to you.

  30. 30
    wreckingbull says:

    By Evelyn @ 5:

    Hi Tim,
    I enjoy reading your blog every day. I would like to hear this talk because I am approaching retirement so I hope you will post the content or have this talk again on a weekend. My current plan is to stay in my house until I’m hauled off. I am setting up my yard for food production including delivery of two truckloads of compost. Seems to make sense but I would like to hear other ideas.

    With all due respect, PLEASE have a plan B. Since we all live so long these days, your scenario of living at home until you pass in the night is becoming increasingly rare. A more common case is that some sort of dementia sets in, often severe. This is one reason why places like Crista are becoming more popular. People are not buying into it for themselves, but also a gift to those who would be morally bound to care for them. It is just too bad this setup is so expensive.

  31. 31
  32. 32
    David Losh says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 26

    Really? I’m always fascinated by your continued opinions about the world you live in, but read these comments again. Get a clue, get out of the house more, and take a look around.

  33. 33

    RE: David Losh @ 32 – If one thing is clear, the world I live in isn’t the same world that you live on. I suspect everyone here would agree on that!

    But just out of curiosity, what makes you think The Tim has any expertise in living trusts? Why should he even mention them to anyone at this meeting? Should he also be giving them tax advice? Medical advice? Just what do you expect The Tim to be advising these people about?

  34. 34
    David Losh says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 33

    Let me help you out with that, you meant to say the planet I live on.

    Do you know where Crista is, what they do, how they accomplish goals?

  35. 35

    RE: David Losh @ 34 – You’re becoming just as pointless to respond to as pfft.

    Seriously, you want to distinguish between planet and world? How is that in anyway critical to this discussion?

    And how does what Crista is or how they accomplish their goals in any way impact the topics that The Tim is knowledgeable about?

    You just want people to say things, regardless of whether they are right. That’s why you’re such a big fan of Ardell.

  36. 36
    David Losh says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 35

    Well, you did correct Ardell in a similar fashion.

    Crista is one of the better facilities for assisted living, in my opinion. They accomplish goals by a spirit of mutual cooperation. They are a self contained campus, that has kind of struck me as the place I would want to be in case of disaster.

    That said, it’s sad to think that people spend a life time accumulating wealth only to watch it slip away in retirement. In most cases, that I have seen, there isn’t a lot of fun, or joy about those golden years. Crista, at very least the is a community.

  37. 37

    By David Losh @ 36:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 35 – Crista is one of the better facilities for assisted living, in my opinion. They accomplish goals by a spirit of mutual cooperation. They are a self contained campus, that has kind of struck me as the place I would want to be in case of disaster.

    That’s all well and good, but what does that have to do with The Tim even mentioning a living trust? Stick to the topic at hand.

    FWIW, I’m familiar with that type of a facility. My mom lives in one, and in making the decision as to which one I toured several. But again, that has nothing at all to do with living trusts.

  38. 38
    David Losh says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 37

    Why are you dictating to me to stick to a topic you chose?

    My opinion is that yes, people should explore a family trust rather than give the property away for assisted living.

    That is my opinion, which I freely expressed.

    The topic at hand is ” What’s the most important thing you would share with this group”

  39. 39

    RE: David Losh @ 38 – Which is fine, and I responded with a warning that for some people creating a family trust will terminate their title insurance. You then responded to that in some manner, and I then pointed out this wasn’t really Tim’s area of expertise.

    You can think whatever you want, but you still haven’t explained why you think Tim should mention something outside his area of expertise. Should he also cover prostate health?

  40. 40
    David Losh says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 39

    Why should he cover Real Estate? Why should he talk at all?

    We are all equally qualified to share our own experiences, and yes, if Tim has experience with prostate health why couldn’t he speak about that?

    You also changed family trust to living trust. Why? What is it that makes you want to change the subject, then make some big deal about word substitution?

    You expressed your opinion in comment 2 which I left alone, but you chose to engage me? Hmmm…

    I’ve got to go back to work, but this was another weird Kary moment that I wanted to see play out.

  41. 41

    RE: David Losh @ 40 – I didn’t mean to change the topic by using the term living trust.

    And no, we’re not all qualified to share experiences. You want Tim to bring up a topic which is highly legal. There are title insurance issues, government benefit issues, debtor/creditor issues, etc. That is a topic which should only be mentioned by a lawyer because you don’t want a bunch of seniors going off asking for a family trust if that’s not in their best interest, just because someone not familiar with the topic brought it up.

    My apologies to Tim if he is familiar with the topic (I have no reason to believe he is), but even if he has some familiarity with the topic, it’s something that should only be addressed by an attorney who understands some of the broader ramifications.

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