Weekend Open Thread (2012-06-08)

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Here is your open thread for the weekend beginning Friday June 8th, 2012. You may post random links and off-topic discussions here. Also, if you have an idea or a topic you’d like to see covered in an article, please make it known.

Be sure to also check out the forums, and get your word in the user-driven discussions there!

NOTICE: If you have comments to make about politics or economics that do not somehow directly relate to Seattle-area real estate, they may be posted in the Politics & Economics Open Thread. If you post such comments here, they will be moved there.

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About The Tim

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market. Tim also hosts the weekly improv comedy sci-fi podcast Dispatches from the Multiverse.

47 comments:

  1. 1

    An Interesting Take from the Tacoma Tribune

    “..“This spring the housing market is responding to an improving balance between real estate supply and demand which is causing stabilization in house prices,” said Mark Fleming, chief economist for CoreLogic. “Although this has been the case in each of the last two years, the difference this year is that stabilization is occurring without the support of tax credits and in spite of a declining share of REO (lender-owned) sales.”

    Read more here: http://blog.thenewstribune.com/business/2012/05/08/tacoma-home-prices-continue-falling/#storylink=cpy.

    Declining share of REO sales stabilizing prices is a no brainer, I’d take “in spite of” out of the above sentence. Is this just a Spring Bounce trend and the REOs off listing are just a seasonal “planned collapse” by banks? Opinions?

  2. 2

    RE: softwarengineer @ 1 – I was going to make the same comment on “in spite of.” Rather than removing it though, I’d say “in part because of.”

  3. 3

    By David Losh @ 64:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 63 – Have you met Maria enough to have these strong opinions? I find her dedicated, and hard working. I may not agree with her politics, but she is a genuine person, who I feel is doing her job.

    No, I have no interest in meeting her. And it’s not her politics. It’s her economics. She doesn’t understand economic issues. Instead she’s like Pegasus and just assumes fraud or wrongdoing when prices go up. And she often proposes the wrong solutions (e.g. price controls).

    Actually, I take that back. I don’t think she necessarily assumes fraud or wrongdoing when prices go up. She assumes she can get votes by claiming fraud or wrongdoing when prices go up. No one actually knows whether she actually believes the nonsense that comes out of her mouth. She could be just lying to get votes. No one knows but her.

  4. 4
    Pegasus says:

    RE: Klondike Kary @ 3 – Kary continues to troll. Quelle Surprise!

  5. 5

    By David Losh @ 64:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 63 – It sounds like you are retired, and blogging for business, best of luck with that.

    How about doing me a favor and quit trying to guess what my situation is. You’re very bad at it.

  6. 6
    ChrisM says:

    Squatting horror story:
    http://www.bubbleinfo.com/2012/06/07/squatters/

    Although it sounds tempting to “squat for cash.”

    Where’s my bailout? Everyone else seems to be getting one…

  7. 7
    Pegasus says:

    RE: ChrisM @ 6 – That story really isn’t about squatters. It is more in line with someone renting a house from the wrong people. Rental fraud. Maybe. The husband produced a lease, mentioning that he gave $7500 cash for first, last, and security deposit, etc. to someone. The fact that 10 people are living there makes me question whether or not that lease is not a fraud. Unfortunately the owner is stuck with figuring it out and evicting them.

  8. 8
    ChrisM says:

    RE: Pegasus @ 7 – Well, I’m tempted to write myself a lease, squat, and hope someone pays me $7,000 to move out…

  9. 9

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 3

    I Met Her Twice

    The last time i was wearing a “Celebrate Earthday” tee shirt. Mayor Nickels was taking official duty and police dollars to lead a parade of undocumented immigrants down Seattle streets.

    My American Earthday depopulation tee shirt mixed in like oil and water with the globalist minded Dems….LOL

  10. 10
    Macro Investor says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 44:

    By Sarah @ 41:

    Peter at 38.

    Yes, this has been my experience as well – and this adds to my previous point to Kary. I do feel that real estate agents put pressure to buy. Buyers are a lot more savvy with websites such as these, zillow and redfin out there and can figure things out for themselves.

    As your self these questions:

    1. What do I know about different types of siding?
    2. What do I know about different types of roofing?
    3. What do I know about septic tanks and sewer scoping?
    4, What do I know about remodel permits?
    5. What do I know about the various types of pests in the PNW?
    6. What do I know about the relative value of different styles of houses?
    7. What do I know about closing a short sale that is a rental?
    8. What do I know about the likely terms on an REO sale?
    9. What do I know about the terms on the financing addendum?

    .

    What does the average agent know about these things? I’m sure some do, but getting licensed only requires that they know the bare minimum about legal theory and closing transactions.

    As I said on a thread way way back — an agent that can help with issues like this (and is WILLING) is worth the 6%. Unfortunately, finding them (and not just someone who claims to know) is nearly impossible. Hence, most clients are best served going the “el cheapo” route and relying on the inspections for this kind of information.

  11. 11

    By Macro Investor @ 10:

    As I said on a thread way way back — an agent that can help with issues like this (and is WILLING) is worth the 6%. .

    That’s good, because usually the seller is only offering 3, maybe 4 tops! ;-)

  12. 12
    David Losh says:

    RE: Macro Investor @ 10

    You’re exactly right, agents who are worth 6%, or 3%, or 4%, are really busy. It’s hard to find them even with a referral.

    Also most people don’t know the difference between agents, what they do, or what they are worth, so it is hard to make that judgement.

    I look at longevity, coupled with acivity in the areas that I have an interest in, whether geographic, price point, or terms.

  13. 13
    David Losh says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 5

    You see Kary when you started insulting me that was OK because that is what I usuallly get here.

    Insulting pfft was OK, because i consider him a pro, either blogger, or financial, he toasts you every time anyway.

    When you spent an entire day insulting Pegasus, for no reason, no logic, no point, that was the end of that.

    I’m not here to do you any favors.

  14. 14

    By David Losh @ 13:

    When you spent an entire day insulting Pegasus, for no reason, no logic, no point, that was the end of that. .

    Apparently you don’t read what Pegasus writes. He’s an admitted troll who likes to insult me.

    https://seattlebubble.com/blog/2012/01/02/the-tims-top-ten-of-twenty-eleven/comment-page-1/#comment-153139

    I’ll insult him right back, but the difference is what I say about him is true. And the reason for that difference is he’s anonymous.

    And I’m sorry, but if you can’t understand the point I’m making, or my logic, that’s your problem. I never write anything without a point (unless it’s a joke).

  15. 15
    Pegasus says:

    RE: David Losh @ 13 – Relax Dave. Carnac Kary allowed me to make a complete fool out of him yesterday. Actually he really did that on his very own by constantly forgetting his previous baloney. Now he is trolling again for me in the post after yours after I refused to answer his nonsense anymore and clog the board. Nothing new from a baloney slinger. He did not like me posting about an oil industry expert that completely refuted his baloney and backed up what I had posted. He insisted the expert was “stupid”. He was wrong about what gasoline prices would do because of his ignorance. He was wrong about how the gasoline distribution system works. He was wrong about what caused the California power crisis. He was wrong about the banksters and fraudclosure. He was wrong about oil price manipulation. He was wrong about IPO’s. He was wrong about fraud and normally can’t resist automatically defending any apparent fraud from the banksters. He was wrong about the effect of the tax credit on real estate prices claiming that prices could go up after the credit ended.. He was wrong about payday loans, etc. etc.. He thought the robosigners were just doing their job. He is rarely right on any subject but he just can’t stop posting, huffing and puffing when someone points out his fallacies and continually making a fool out of himself. It is a rare sight to behold.

    Enjoy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuFSWcNe8hY

  16. 16
    Malta says:

    Hi All,

    I have a question regarding a home I am considering purchasing. Its a rented house and the home inspection has revealed fungi/mold spores on the inner part of the roof.

    A few questions for the wise ones here…
    1. Should I just take the earnest money and run away?
    2. Even if the seller fixes the issue, from what I am reading online, it seems no one can warranty the work, so it is possible that it will come back. That scares me as it would affect resale some point down the line – also I would have to disclose this whenever I would sell the house even if that is 15 years down the line.
    3. Do I have a legal obligation to disclose this to the renters?

    Thanks all.

  17. 17

    RE: Pegasus @ 15 – Making up false claims about what I said doesn’t prove a point, unless the point is you’re a troll and a liar.

  18. 18
    One Eyed Man says:

    RE: Pegasus @ 15

    1. Prologue:
    Before making any substantive comment, I would first attempt to take personal character issues off the table by confessing that I’m not actually a social libertarian who is critical of externalities in market economics, or a secular humanist, or anything else other than a pure crony capitalist, sub human defender of the Kleptocracy who is guilty of crimes against humanity and anything else bubble readers might hold sacred and am not worthy of interaction with true humans other than to suck the gutter slim off their footware. Although I know my confession won’t eliminate the need for ad hominem attacks, I’m hoping it may limit the need to divert the discussion from substantive issues and make me publicly suck gutter slim to prove my sub human existence (despite how much I might personally enjoy my debased state of public humiliation).

    2. Caveat:
    My comment is not intended to imply that I either agree or disagree with the rest of Pegasus’s comment or that for some reason I don’t think that Pegasus has made some excellent contributions to the information and insight provided in this forum. Pegasus has in the past, and continues to provide excellent substantive information and insight, some of which I agree with and some of which I don’t. Nor is this comment intended as a defense of Kary’s personal insults to Pegasus or to imply that I agree or disagree with other comments made by Kary.

    3. Substantive comment:
    Pegasus states in his comment regarding Kary: “He was wrong about the effect of the tax credit on real estate prices claiming that prices could go up after the credit ended.. ”

    My substantive comment is limited to the above quote. I believe the above quoted statement by Pegasus mischaracterizes what Kary said about the tax credit and prices. To the best of my recollection, Kary’s comment about the tax credit and the median was reasonable, logical, insightful and original. If I recall correctly, Kary said that the “median” might rise after the tax credit expired because it was likely that the tax credit had more of an effect on the low end of the price spectrum and was probably causing an increase in relative volume at the low end. I believe Kary’s theory was that the median might be affected more by change in sales mix than by true change in home prices. If more houses are purchased at the low end, that can drag down the median. If that’s what was actually happening, then when the tax credit expired, its possible that low end volume would decrease and the median might actually go up even though true home value (like the CS Index) might not. My recollection is that Kary never said the CS Index or some other measure (not affect by sales mix) would go up other than the median which might go up only due to a change in sales mix.

    IMO Kary’s comment about the affect of the tax credit on the median was reasonable. And to the best of my recollection, Kary didn’t say the median would go up, only that it might go up due to a change in sales mix.

  19. 19

    By Pegasus @ 15:

    He was wrong about the effect of the tax credit on real estate prices claiming that prices could go up after the credit ended..

    This is the only thing you got half-way right in the whole post, but again it’s a lie. What I was saying back then is that having fewer low end sales could change the mix, raising the median. I didn’t say prices would go up. There’s no reason prices would go up with fewer buyers. Unlike you, I understand economics, so I wouldn’t think such a thing.

    That increase didn’t really occur, perhaps because of the way they terminated the credit. You had to sign by a certain date but had something like three months to close. The effect might have been more obvious if all those sales had to close by a certain date, like the first time the credit expired.

    The change in mix is the same concept as what I’ve been saying the last two months about how rising volumes change the mix because REOs and short sales make up a small percentage. In that case the change in mix had a huge impact on the median.

    Just because you can’t understand what I’m saying it doesn’t mean I’m wrong. California electric prices are the prime example of that. You don’t understand economics at all, so you can’t understand what I’m saying and think I’m wrong. You’re just ignorant and uneducated and you fell for the Enron scapegoating because you’re gullible.

  20. 20

    By One Eyed Man @ 17:

    And to the best of my recollection, Kary didn’t say the median would go up, only that it might go up due to a change in sales mix.

    It would splitting hairs to try to remember whether I said the median “would” go up or “might” go up. It’s somewhat unlikely that I would have said they would go up for sure, because I always like to point out that many factors tend to affect such things. Also, note before even reading your post, I used the term “could” in my post above addressing this issue.

    What I clearly did not say was that values or prices “would” or “could” go up because of the expiration. Price or value is based on supply and demand, and the end of the buyer credit was clearly something that would adversely affect demand. So there’s no way I would have suggested that event would somehow increase prices or value. That’s complete nonsense to even suggest I would say such a thing.

  21. 21
    David Losh says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 14

    So what? Who are you? and who cares who you are or what you do?

    Your commnets are the most mean spirited of anything that I have read on any blog.

    When cornered, which is a lot, you start insulting.

    This just caught my eye as an example:
    “Just because you can’t understand what I’m saying it doesn’t mean I’m wrong.”

    Every one understands what you are saying. There is no magic to what you are saying. You have opinions, we all have opinions, yours are no better than any one elses.

  22. 22

    By David Losh @ 20:

    Every one understands what you are saying. There is no magic to what you are saying. You have opinions, we all have opinions, yours are no better than any one elses.

    David, you often don’t understand what I’m saying, so you’re hardly the one that should be claiming everyone understands. You’re an example.

    Just about a month ago you were struggling with the issue of how fewer REO sales as a percentage could affect the median. You were about the only one here who had that problem.

    And that the change caused the median to rise is not an opinion. That is an absolute fact. If I said it caused the median to rise by $15,000, that would be an opinion.

  23. 23

    RE: One Eyed Man @ 17 – We might as well go back and look.

    https://seattlebubble.com/blog/2010/07/16/weekend-open-thread-2010-07-16/comment-page-1/#comment-105540

    Apparently it was someone else who advanced that theory, and I said it might happen.

    This topic has been a great example of how Pegasus likes to misstate my positions to make his false claims. And in the linked post it was pointed out by that third party how he was making a false claim about my position. But that doesn’t stop him from continuing to do it.

  24. 24
    David Losh says:

    RE: One Eyed Man @ 17

    Separating out individual phrases within a comment is an unfair characterization of the thread, every thread, all day, every day.

  25. 25
    David Losh says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 21

    “David, you often don’t understand what I’m saying,”

    Of course i understand what you are saying. I may even agree, but it doesn’t change the spirit of your comments.

    I come here to learn something, and learn something most days. Pegasus has brought much more to the table than you have. I may not agree with everything he, or she says, but it is an honest contribution.

    My impression is you just repeat what you read in the newspaper.

  26. 26

    By David Losh @ 24:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 21

    “David, you often donâ��t understand what Iâ��m saying,”

    Of course i understand what you are saying. I may even agree, but it doesn’t change the spirit of your comments.

    No you don’t understand. Sometimes you’ll even say “I’m trying to understand” or “you’re making my head hurt.”

    You’re right though it doesn’t change the spirit of my comments. There are three people here who I will not hold back on. You, pfft and Pegasus. In all three cases it was because the three were rude or insulting to me first. So what you’re complaining of in the case of comments directed at you is your fault.

    And to be clear, even Pegasus and I have a lot of friendly exchanges. But when he changes the tone, I will too.

  27. 27
    Pegasus says:

    RE: One Eyed Man @ 17 – Glad to see the fellow defender of the Kleptocracy weigh in on cue. What a surprise. You are wrong about what Kary said and you are now relating disinfo. I had said that I expected that real estate prices would decline once the effect of the tax credit passed and Kary said he thought they would go up. Nothing was said about the “medium” in that conversation. It was just Kary slinging baloney.

  28. 28

    RE: Pegasus @ 26 – Just continue ignore the links of what was said and make stuff up. Pure unadulterated Pegasus.

  29. 29

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 21:

    By David Losh @ 20:

    Every one understands what you are saying. There is no magic to what you are saying. You have opinions, we all have opinions, yours are no better than any one elses.

    David, you often don’t understand what I’m saying, so you’re hardly the one that should be claiming everyone understands. You’re an example.

    Just about a month ago you were struggling with the issue of how fewer REO sales as a percentage could affect the median. You were about the only one here who had that problem..

    As long as I’m in the mood to procrastinate today, here’s a link to support my claim.

    https://seattlebubble.com/blog/2012/05/03/nwmls-median-price-spikes-as-bank-owned-sales-dip/comment-page-1/#comment-165567

  30. 30
    Pegasus says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 22 – This reply is a great example of Kary slinging baloney after the fact to confuse the issue. My comment was made on the same day that Kary now slickly links to as “evidence”. Unfortunately those posts are many days afterwards. The unsuspecting reader might unfortunately be conned by Kary. Here is one of my responses on that day that blows what Kary posted out of the water. All you have to do is read:

    Pegasus
    July 17, 2010 at 2:17 pm | Permalink
    RE: deejayoh @ 36 – I was talking about a different episode here where Kary attacked my statement with typical real estate agent baloney and now he is trying to shift it toward your argument. I am surprised he didn’t add that we could be priced out forever. Sorry but those are the facts. The argument had nothing to do with your theory. And my statement is correct as Kary tries to squirm away from his incorrect statement.

  31. 31

    RE: Pegasus @ 29 – Post the link to where I said what you claim.

    You’re an admitted troll and a serial liar. Backtracking and making the same lie again does not prove that I said something. Post the link to where I said what you say I said.

  32. 32

    To be perfectly clear for Pegasus, what he needs to find me saying is what he was claiming I was saying here:

    https://seattlebubble.com/blog/2010/07/16/weekend-open-thread-2010-07-16/comment-page-1/#comment-105533

    By Pegasus @ 32:

    I speculated on how much housing prices would drop after the end of the tax credit as to would it be more than the $8000 credit since massive leverage is employed through mortgages. You contended that prices would rise because investors were waiting for the credit to expire thus there was a pent up demand building for buying. You were wrong….again.

    Put up or shut up. Prove I said what you claimed.

    And to be further clear, if I said something to the effect that might the end of the credit might be countered by investors coming in the market, that is not saying prices would rise due to investors coming into the market. That just means that any reduction in value from lower demand would be offset to some extent.

  33. 33
    Pegasus says:

    RE: Carnac@ 31RE: Pegasus @ 30 – I wasn’t the one caught today trying to deceive people with a link today that led to a deceptive post made by you long after you made your bed with erroneous information. Seems to be your MO after making a fool out of yourself. Hahaha. With all that name calling I can see you are losing it. You can post your statement yourself. I know you know where you made it. When you post it you can say that you were only joking like you did yesterday about your $6.00 gasoline prediction. Here is a post where I remind you of your mistake. You don’t see me point out anything about the median or medium concerning your previous erroneous statement in this post:.

    Pegasus
    July 7, 2010 at 12:10 pm | Permalink
    For Kary….Remember how you speculated that housing prices might increase after the tax credit ended? Something about investors tired of waiting? It appears the opposite as I predicted has happened. The tax credit actually was leveraging higher prices by more than the amount of the credit.

    “There’s a silver lining for would-be home buyers who missed the April 30 deadline for the $8,000 federal tax credit: Sellers are dropping prices.

    The average price reduction for a single-family home or condominium in the Bay State last month was 8 percent, or $38,883 off the original asking price, according to real estate search engine Trulia.com.

    In Suffolk County, which includes the cities of Boston, Chelsea, Revere and Winthrop, the price reduction was $43,288, or 7 percent off the listing price.”

  34. 34
    Natalia Orinko says:

    This forum seems like a bad episode of Family Feud.

  35. 35
    TJ_98370 says:

    In a local real estate news-magazine, featured in the Kitsap Sun on Saturdays, there was an article indicating that compared to a year ago real estate sales are up in Kitsap. However supply is down, and sales prices are down. A quote from the article indicated that the reason for this is “….the increased activity is due to more jobs than homes in King County, causing the holders of those jobs to look around here.”
    .
    Any comments on this analysis?

  36. 36

    RE: Pegasus @ 33 – Pegasus, put up or shut up. Find the link where I said what you said. Your lying about what I said isn’t proof of squat, other than the fact that you are a serial liar.

    Previously I said you should take a course on economics so that you will understand what happened in California with their energy situation. You should also take a course in economics so that you can make up some better lies about what I have said in the past. What you claim I said makes absolutely no sense from an economics point of view, and the people familiar with what I post and economics will understand that. Your attempt to claim I said something is laughable.

  37. 37

    Pegasus, btw, I’m also waiting for you to respond to my specific arguments against your expert in gas prices. You think you know and understand things. How about proving that by doing something that doesn’t involve copying and pasting news articles or making unsupported claims of fraud? You can lie about a lot of things, but you can’t seem to discuss anything, apparently because you’re uneducated and ignorant. Prove me wrong.

    https://seattlebubble.com/blog/2012/06/06/mid-week-open-thread-2012-06-06/comment-page-1/#comment-169373

    Put up or shut up.

  38. 38

    By Pegasus @ 33:

    RE: Carnac@ 31RE: Pegasus @ 30 – I wasn’t the one caught today trying to deceive people with a link today that led to a deceptive post made by you long after you made your bed with erroneous information.

    And to be clear, that prior link isn’t deceptive because you made unsupported false claims about what I said back then. That’s your MO. Lying. Put up or shut up. Post a link to what you claim I said.

    I suspect though you’ve spent no time trying to find a link. Liars know when they are lying and don’t waste their own time. They only waste other peoples’ time.

  39. 39

    By TJ_98370 @ 35:

    In a local real estate news-magazine, featured in the Kitsap Sun on Saturdays, there was an article indicating that compared to a year ago real estate sales are up in Kitsap. However supply is down, and sales prices are down. There’s not a significant change in the percentage of distressed properties, like here. A quote from the article indicated that the reason for this is “….the increased activity is due to more jobs than homes in King County, causing the holders of those jobs to look around here.”
    .
    Any comments on this analysis?

    Kitsap county is much more dependent on the federal government for jobs. Looking at May 2011 and 2012, the median is down, but the mean is up, and looking at just their non-distressed, the mean and median are both up. Not really following that market I don’t have an explanation for why the median is down. If I had to guess, the sales are occurring in a different part of the county than last year.

    References to non-distressed mean, median and percentages from NWMLS sources, but not compiled by or guaranteed by the NWMSL.

  40. 40

    Did anyone else here watch the Bradley-Pacquiao fight last night? I was in a clearly biased room, listening to announcers who were also clearly biased, but I don’t recall Bradley landing a single punch that in any way stunned or otherwise affected Pacquiao.

    I gave up on boxing due to bad results, so this is the first fight I’ve watched in years, but that one sure doesn’t make me want to come back to following the “sport.”

  41. 41

    Here’s an issue that I just saw pop up. Washington has a real estate excise tax of about 1.78% on the sale of real property. Some sales are exempt, including deed in lieu transactions where no additional consideration is passed. But where the debtor gets consideration, the transaction is taxed, based on the amount of the outstanding debt together with the other consideration.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/wac/default.aspx?cite=458-61A-208

    Here is an example given in the WAC:

    (i) Meg sells real property to Julie on a real estate contract. The contract price is $65,000. Julie makes payments for one year and then loses her job and can’t make payments on the contract. Julie feels that she has some equity in the property, but she and Meg disagree on how to resolve the issue. Eventually, they come to an agreement. Meg will pay Julie $1,500; Julie will sign a deed in lieu of forfeiture and transfer the property to Meg. At the time of the deed in lieu of forfeiture, the outstanding balance of the contract was $61,000. Even though the transfer was by a deed in lieu of forfeiture, there is additional consideration passing (the $1,500). The transfer is subject to tax. The taxable selling price is $62,500, which is the total of the outstanding contract balance that was canceled plus the $1,500 paid to Julie.

    So let’s say you have a $350,000 loan and get $3,000 to move. The total consideration is $353,000 and you then owe a tax of $6,238.04! Like they say in dominoes, not all money is good money.

    Note though that if the tax is not paid, it becomes a lien against the property. I wonder if this could pass through to a buyer of an REO, and if so if it would be covered by title insurance?

  42. 42
    The Tim says:

    If you notice that some comments are missing, it’s because they were moved to the Politics & Economics Open Thread, as I have said I will be doing to non-real-estate-related political and/or economic comments.

  43. 43
    pfft says:

    By The Tim @ 42:

    If you notice that some comments are missing, it’s because they were moved to the Politics & Economics Open Thread, as I have said I will be doing to non-real-estate-related political and/or economic comments.

    can you start a new one?

  44. 44
    Dirty Renter says:

    By Natalia Orinko @ 34:

    This forum seems like a bad episode of Family Feud.

    I wish they’d take it to the octagon.

  45. 45

    By pfft @ 43:

    By The Tim @ 42:

    If you notice that some comments are missing, it’s because they were moved to the Politics & Economics Open Thread, as I have said I will be doing to non-real-estate-related political and/or economic comments.

    can you start a new one?

    What is it about the length of that thread that puts people off? You’re always taken to the last <100 posts, and you can easily pick up where you want. There's less than 50 posts since June 3rd. Start there.

  46. 46

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 41 – The attorney who raised this issue did a bit more digging and found an exception for relocation assistance in RCW 82.45.030.

    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=82.45.030

    That should be enough to cover your basic government programs set up by President Obama. But what about Ray’s situations where he’s seeing $25,000 paid. Hard to call that relocation assistance.

    Also, if you look at the language of the WAC and the RCW, the DOR could argue that the exception in the statute only means that the relocation assistance isn’t part of the sale price, but because there is additional compensation, the amount of debt is still included. I think they’d be unlikely to do that, but they did a couple of years ago try to include all of the debt on loans in short sale transactions, and that position was based on much less.

  47. 47
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 45:

    By pfft @ 43:

    By The Tim @ 42:

    If you notice that some comments are missing, it’s because they were moved to the Politics & Economics Open Thread, as I have said I will be doing to non-real-estate-related political and/or economic comments.

    can you start a new one?

    What is it about the length of that thread that puts people off? You’re always taken to the last <100 posts, and you can easily pick up where you want. There's less than 50 posts since June 3rd. Start there.

    just seems like a new start.

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