Weekly Open Thread (2014-11-17)

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Here is your open thread for the week of November 17th, 2014. You may post random links and off-topic discussions here. Also, if you have an idea or a topic you’d like to see covered in an article, please make it known.

Note: The comment limit in open threads is 25 comments per person.

NOTICE: If you have comments to make about politics or economics that do not somehow directly relate to Seattle-area real estate, they may be posted in the current Politics & Economics Open Thread.  If you post such comments here, they will be moved there.

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About The Tim

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market. Tim also hosts the weekly improv comedy sci-fi podcast Dispatches from the Multiverse.

53 comments:

  1. 1

    By pfft @ 36:

    umm…the employer mandate that we’ve had for decades?

    No–yet another thing you don’t understand about health care. Like I said, to support Obamacare requires ignorance or misinformation.

    Do you think Walmart has been offering healthcare for decades?

    What you might be confusing is group policies have covered pre-existing conditions for some time, but I’m not sure that’s decades.

  2. 2

    For a Mere $.75M You Can Get a Pink Pony [article: Gay Pride] Seattle Home

    Here’s your chance to grab up an over-priced Seattle Shack and be labeled Seattle politically correct too….

    http://curbed.com/archives/2014/11/17/gayest-house-in-seattle.php

  3. 3
    Blurtman says:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 2 – That won’t play in Kansas.

  4. 4

    Well good news. My insurance for 2015 will apparently go up only $9 a month. Much better than the almost $200 increase last year. So that means that my going to the doctor for a physical this year only cost me an additional $2,400. Clearly money well spent because that was a great examination! /sarc

    Even more good news–they now have a slightly cheaper option where you start paying more for services earlier, but the total out of pocket is slightly less. Not sure why that works out to paying less, because they start paying something earlier, but I’ll figure that out later.

  5. 5

    I Read Banks are Accepting More Mortgage Applications Now

    The bad news the applications are halved in numbers?

    http://www.islandpacket.com/2014/11/17/3436832/columbia-home-sales-drop-nearly.html?sp=/99/257/260/

    I’m sure our pitiful comparable listings numbers will make that SC article look like a walk in the park.

  6. 6

    RE: Blurtman @ 3

    Yes Blurtman

    Just like Kansas City made the Mariners look bad….now its the Seahawk’s turn….the real estate prices isn’t the only thing they do right in KC….LOL

  7. 7

    I’m not sure if this is news today, but this article is dated today.

    http://www.housingwire.com/articles/32071-bank-of-america-mortgage-cases-go-to-the-supreme-court

    What’s at issue is whether a Chapter 7 debtor can strip off a second mortgage that is wholly unsecured. For example, 1st mortgage of $225,000, 2nd of $100,000 and a house worth $200,000. The 11th Circuit has held that the debtor can avoid the 2nd mortgage, and the USSC is taking up the issue.

    Locally debtors to accomplish this result have had to go Chapter 13, which typically requires monthly payments for 36 months (subject to exceptions). Chapter 7 trustee have however not been generally negotiating with such 2nd position mortgage holders in short sales.

  8. 8
    Blurtman says:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 6 – Russell Wilson will soon resign to further pursue his TV pitchman career. I am going to be pissed when Marshawn bails next year. He’s The Man! And I think Alex Smith should still be starting for the 49er’s and Andy Reid is a very good coach. The Hawks’ play calling this year is pretty pedestrian.

  9. 9
    pfft says:

    I feel bad that the president has to work with these clowns.

    WATCH: GOP Rep. Repeatedly Fails To Offer ‘Amnesty’ Alternative
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/bloomberg-huelskamp-dodge-immigration-question

  10. 10
    Blurtman says:

    Beer, bourbon and bullets – what made America great.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJFdPy55Vws

  11. 11
    One Eyed Man says:

    RE: Blurtman @ 10

    The scary part isn’t really the reference to beer. Whether in the saloon, the public house or the speak-easy, alcohol and guns have historically gone together in America. The scary part is the reference at 28 seconds into the video, to an Apple Store. Who cares about some stupid watch if you can bring the World of Warcraft to life in a big market, high margin move that brings to mind that historic American phrase “The Great Equalizer”.

    How long before we see a leap in Apple innovation (or Google, or GoPro, or some yet unknown) to the I-gun with a nerdy pair of glasses containing a heads up display that tracks multiple bogies while controlling a recoil stabilized, semi-auto equipped drone or squadron of drones that provide a halo of security for those who feel safer within the perimeter of personal space provided by one’s exercise of the Second Amendment.

    The Super Bowl ad builds with suspense as a 98 pound nerd with his clearly out of his league girlfriend walks from a social club after dark while being eyed by a group of malfeasants. The girl notices the leering band and clutches his arm. As one of the bad actors approaches the nerd, over sized red laser dots light up on the chest or perhaps the crotch of each of the bad actors. As the group begins to scurry to escape the lights a computer generated voice like HAL’s mildly says to the crowd “please avoid any threatening gestures warranting self defense measures as you’re virtually dead already”.

  12. 12
    Blurtman says:

    RE: One Eyed Man @ 11 – God made men, but Tim Cook made them equal?

  13. 13

    RE: Blurtman @ 8

    Sherman will join Russell selling local Chevy’s….”tell ’em Sherm sent you”….

  14. 14

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 4

    My Employer and I are Already Paying an Average American Worker’s Salary for a Family Plan Blue Cross Cadillac Policy

    My portion is like $325/mo….its out of control Kary….meanwhile, Medicaid= No Insurance basically, now that the ACA watered down our legal citizen disability plan with health coverage for the uninsured [70% of the uninsured BTW] healthy citizens. Why doesn’t the liberals [like I do] admit to this HORRIFYING dilemma and be real Democrats?

    Now Obama wants to further water down useless Medicaid with his EO amnesty as a Christmas Present under the tree for all our special needs and elderly.

  15. 15

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 4

    Soon Kary, We’ll All be On Useless ACA Plans?

    Cadillac Plans that allow us to use specialists without referrals from our risky general practioners’ bad advice will be eliminated in 2018….

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertwood/2014/11/19/was-obamacares-cadillac-tax-misrepresented/

  16. 16

    RE: softwarengineer @ 14 – Don’t you have the option of opting for a lower policy and not paying anything? Or is that premium for you and your family? Unless you have health issues, that would be a lot of money to pay for a low deductible and co-pay. I’m stuck having to pay a lot for a little, but seems like employees should have more choice.

  17. 17

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 16

    I Do Kary

    But I like Cadillac Plans [Group Health too?] that give the flexibility to do yearly physicals at the Fred Meyers blood pressure machine with 3-5 year blood tests [with no basic diet change]…if I have any type of health problem I don’t go to a likely inadequate or bad general practioners’ advice, I go to only plan endorsed specialists [my co-pay to ’em is $15]. I have family plan as a single adult because, let’s put it this way, without it my care options for qualified family member are gone.

  18. 18
    pfft says:

    Once Obama introduces immigration reform and the EPA finalizes the new pollution rules obama will have pretty much accomplished what
    he was elected for. He rescued the economy, the automakers, passed financial reform and a healthcare bill that people have been trying to pass for decades. Pretty successful by any measure. The main drawbacks are the sequester, income inequality, an infrastructure bill(although he did pass the stimulus) and Syria. He still has a pretty good record when you consider he has had no help from Republicans and he inherited a terrible economic environment.

  19. 19

    When violating the laws of economics and various state laws simply isn’t enough, you need to go out and get yourself arrested.

    http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Seattle-city-councilmember-Sawant-arrested-during-protest-283277531.html

    There really should be a law to remove people from office when they show so little respect for the law. What’s amazing though is that they expect people to follow the laws they pass.

  20. 20

    RE: pfft @ 18

    Hey Pfft

    I take it you support the EO for amnesty today?

    The majority of your Democrats [SWE included] polled don’t, that includes the Latinos too. I hear if Obama gets away with it, the Supreme Court steps in on this rash unconstitutional act…..many are saying by 2016, Obama will have killed off the Democrat Party on this organized crime Fascist type attitude. He’s shooting the Democrats in the foot.

  21. 21

    By softwarengineer @ 20:

    He’s shooting the Democrats in the foot.

    I wouldn’t assume that. Voters have short memories. Today the Democrats are prancing around an impeached former President as some sort of a prince. And Nixon didn’t kill off the Republicans back in the day, even though things seemed very bleak for them at the time.

    And if there’s one thing we learned last week, it’s that Democrats think voters are stupid! ;-)

  22. 22
    pfft says:

    By softwarengineer @ 20:

    RE: pfft @ 18

    Hey Pfft

    I take it you support the EO for amnesty today?

    The majority of your Democrats [SWE included] polled don’t, that includes the Latinos too.

    people want reform but not EO. the trouble is EO is the only way to go because Republicans solution is self-deportation and making America the largest gated community in the world…

    Presidents can’t do everything but Obama did a lot with little help from Republicans.

  23. 23
    pfft says:

    These morons finally are getting it together!

    Reid On Obama Immigration Order: ‘We’ve Got His Back’
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/harry-reid-we-ve-got-his-back-obama-immigration-executive-action

  24. 24
    Blurtman says:

    “He rescued the economy…”

    Let’s go to the tape: http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

    The official unemployment rate under President Obama is just now getting into the GWB range. And there are less people in the labor force. Wages are flat. Middle class folks are less wealthy.

    Success?

    Judges say Noooooo…..!

    “He still has a pretty good record when you consider he has had no help from Republicans and he inherited a terrible economic environment.”

    Yes, things began to unravel under GWB. Loose financial regulating and the resultant fraud caused a financial crash which sunk the broader economy. It was apparently so bad that even GWB backed big government bailouts, as long as they were going to the bankers and the banks. And GWB even backed bailing out GM.

    And yes, apparently it does take longer to rebuild from a financial crash.

    Is America on the road to good times for all?

    Judges say Noooooooooo……..!

    If you are in the class that is doing well, you are doing well and probably don’t associate with the folks who aren’t, so what you know experientially?

  25. 25
    pfft says:

    By Blurtman @ 24:

    “He rescued the economy…”

    Let’s go to the tape: http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000

    The official unemployment rate under President Obama is just now getting into the GWB range. And there are less people in the labor force. Wages are flat. Middle class folks are less wealthy.

    Success?

    Judges say Noooooo…..!

    “He still has a pretty good record when you consider he has had no help from Republicans and he inherited a terrible economic environment.”

    Yes, things began to unravel under GWB. Loose financial regulating and the resultant fraud caused a financial crash which sunk the broader economy. It was apparently so bad that even GWB backed big government bailouts, as long as they were going to the bankers and the banks. And GWB even backed bailing out GM.

    And yes, apparently it does take longer to rebuild from a financial crash.

    Is America on the road to good times for all?

    Judges say Noooooooooo……..!

    If you are in the class that is doing well, you are doing well and probably don’t associate with the folks who aren’t, so what you know experientially?

    1. on the economy – Obama rescued it. there is no doubt about that! we were losing hundreds of thousands of jobs a month. we saved untold jobs by rescuing the automakers. we’d have hundreds of thousands of jobs more if Republicans would pass an Infrastructure/Jobs bill.

    He inherited an economy that was literally falling apart and he turned it around using only Democrats.

    2. not disagreeing with “And there are less people in the labor force. Wages are flat. Middle class folks are less wealthy” but source source source.

    it also could and would be so much worse without the stimulus and auto bailout. Remember Bush did not fully embrace the auto bailout. he basically punted on that issue and Obama took it up.

    “Is America on the road to good times for all?”

    That a straw man.

    We are doing much worse than other countries have historically did during a financial crises. We are doing MUCH BETTER than Europe.

    Anyone notice how I am the only one here who can point out both the successes and shortcoming of the Obama administration? Some here only point out shortcomings…

  26. 26
    pfft says:

    “The official unemployment rate under President Obama is just now getting into the GWB range. ”

    talk about lying with statistics…what a whooper!

  27. 27
    Corndogs says:

    Hey ppffftt.

    Only an absolute idiot Democrat is enough of a one-dimensional thinker to believe that a President (especially one chopped off at the knee caps after year two) has saved or dramatically improved an entire countries economy. Democrats don’t realize that there are other branches of Government, that’s why they get hammered in the mid-terms.

    Only the people with brains understand enough to vote in the mid-terms.

    If you want to have a better understanding of which party affected the economy look at the House and Senate. Harry Reid and Pelosi came in during Bush, wiped out the economy. The election of Oblamer made it worse. The country came to its senses, gave the Democrats a shilaacking… things got a bit better…. now they took a second shellacking and teh market hit an all time high…..

    Get a brain that has more than one dimension ppffffttt…

  28. 28
    Corndogs says:

    By the way, this is just a repeat of history… Your boy B Clinton got elected because of Ross Perot… The country reacted immediately in year two chopping him off at the knee caps and the Republicans came in and cleaned up the mess….. and impeached the idiot… he was pretty much the same cloth as Obama….. no Daddy to teach him how the world works…. doesn’t know the difference between a lie and the truth, not at all humble or likable.

  29. 29
    pfft says:

    By Corndogs @ 27:

    Hey ppffftt.

    Only an absolute idiot Democrat is enough of a one-dimensional thinker to believe that a President (especially one chopped off at the knee caps after year two) has saved or dramatically improved an entire countries economy. Democrats don’t realize that there are other branches of Government, that’s why they get hammered in the mid-terms.

    Only the people with brains understand enough to vote in the mid-terms.

    If you want to have a better understanding of which party affected the economy look at the House and Senate. Harry Reid and Pelosi came in during Bush, wiped out the economy. The election of Oblamer made it worse. The country came to its senses, gave the Democrats a shilaacking… things got a bit better…. now they took a second shellacking and teh market hit an all time high…..

    Get a brain that has more than one dimension ppffffttt…

    Obama saved or created 2+ million jobs. he saved the american auto industry and saved hundreds of thousands of jobs. he helped saved a couple banks and that probably saved tens of thousands of jobs, maybe more.

    “Democrats don’t realize that there are other branches of Government, that’s why they get hammered in the mid-terms.”

    The party that holds the WH almost always loses the midterms, republican or democrat

    “Only the people with brains understand enough to vote in the mid-terms. ”

    I always vote in the midterms so thanks for the endorsement. I was really needed it. I definitely look forward to your validation in the future too!

    “Harry Reid and Pelosi came in during Bush, wiped out the economy. The election of Oblamer made it worse. ”

    LOL. LOL. The stock market is more than 100% than it was when Obama entered office.

    ” now they took a second shellacking and teh market hit an all time high….. ”

    the market made all-time (nominal) highs before the election.

    Don’t read too much into the miss. It had the lowest turnout since 1942, democrats stayed home and most of the elections took place in places friendly to Republicans. Obama won handily in 2012.

    Without Republican obstruction on a historic scale the economy would be doing much better. We’d have millions more jobs.

  30. 30
    pfft says:

    By Corndogs @ 28:

    By the way, this is just a repeat of history… Your boy B Clinton got elected because of Ross Perot… The country reacted immediately in year two chopping him off at the knee caps and the Republicans came in and cleaned up the mess….. and impeached the idiot… he was pretty much the same cloth as Obama….. no Daddy to teach him how the world works…. doesn’t know the difference between a lie and the truth, not at all humble or likable.

    there wasn’t any mess during the Clinton years. Clinton had a booming economy. He created more jobs than either Bush 41, 43 or Reagan could dream of.

    Your grasp of history is bad. Republicans won in 1994. Clinton still won in 96(sound familiar?) and impeachment proceedings didn’t begin until 1998.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_of_Bill_Clinton

  31. 31
    Corndogs says:

    The market is based on future expectations. The 2 largest drops in the history of the stock market happened the day after the 1st and 2nd presidential debates, once Obamas face was on screen and people realized this guy might be President., look it up… It was the prospect of the Democrat becoming President that shattered confidence. So it’s not surprising that the market would be at a dramatic low on the day he took office…… again you need to develop that one dimensional mind….
    and typing a lot doesn’t make your points more valid, I see this a lot, people use this as a distraction when they get flustered and don’t know what to say.

    think…. pfftt.. think…. you can do it. The Clinton Economy was the Gingrich Economy, remember the ‘contract with America’?… the current economic recovery and increasing confidence is a recovery from the Pelosi/Reid/Obama trifecta…. the American people have spoken…. they’ve made the right choice again. and Presidents don’t create jobs … business owners do… and business owners support Republicans…. hmmmmm I wonder why? get rationale.

  32. 32
    pfft says:

    By Corndogs @ 31:

    The market is based on future expectations. The 2 largest drops in the history of the stock market happened the day after the 1st and 2nd presidential debates, once Obamas face was on screen and people realized this guy might be President., look it up….

    no, you wrote it so you must have read it somewhere. source it.

    “The Clinton Economy was the Gingrich Economy, remember the ‘contract with America’?”

    right. I remember how when clinton raised taxes we were supposed to have a big recession. never happened. Clinton had a great jobs records.

    “the American people have spoken…. they’ve made the right choice again. and Presidents don’t create jobs … business owners do”

    You just said that newt gingrich creates jobs. that just show you really have no coherent view of the world. you just blame clinton and democrats. as the young people say you are thirsty. stop being so thirsty.

    anyways business don’t create jobs, demand creates jobs. are you saying that business caused the Great Recession? that would be groundbreaking.

    “the American people have spoken…. they’ve made the right choice again.”

    it was an off year election where only Republican voters showed up. presidents usually lose midterms.

    so thirsty.

  33. 33

    RE: Corndogs @ 28
    Even after he got impeached, Bill Clinton had an approval rating in the high 60’s. You didn’t like him. I didn’t like him. But plenty of people did. Obama doesn’t have 10% of the charm of Bill Clinton. some Presidents just have this charisma thing down. Clinton had it. Ronald Reagan had it. Obama does not, and neither did W.

  34. 34
    wreckingbull says:

    The next two years of watching bufoons like Ted Cruz is going to be so very entertaining. I can’t wait. Of course, massive congressional disfunction will assure a Hillary white house in 2016. So goes our pendulum of stupidity, swinging back and forth between dumb and dumber.

  35. 35
    pfft says:

    By Ira Sacharoff @ 33:

    RE: Corndogs @ 28
    Even after he got impeached, Bill Clinton had an approval rating in the high 60’s. You didn’t like him. I didn’t like him. But plenty of people did. Obama doesn’t have 10% of the charm of Bill Clinton. some Presidents just have this charisma thing down. Clinton had it. Ronald Reagan had it. Obama does not, and neither did W.

    oh i wouldn’t say that.

  36. 36

    By Ira Sacharoff @ 33:

    RE: Corndogs @ 28
    Even after he got impeached, Bill Clinton had an approval rating in the high 60’s. You didn’t like him. I didn’t like him. But plenty of people did. Obama doesn’t have 10% of the charm of Bill Clinton. some Presidents just have this charisma thing down. Clinton had it. Ronald Reagan had it. Obama does not, and neither did W.

    I liked Clinton until he admitted lying.

    Obama also doesn’t have 10% of the intelligence, legal knowledge or political skill of Clinton. He really is the definition of “Empty Suit.”

  37. 37
    pfft says:

    solid article

    No, Your Ancestors Didn’t Come Here Legally
    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/no-your-ancestors-didn-t-come-here-legally

  38. 38
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 36:

    By Ira Sacharoff @ 33:

    RE: Corndogs @ 28
    Even after he got impeached, Bill Clinton had an approval rating in the high 60’s. You didn’t like him. I didn’t like him. But plenty of people did. Obama doesn’t have 10% of the charm of Bill Clinton. some Presidents just have this charisma thing down. Clinton had it. Ronald Reagan had it. Obama does not, and neither did W.

    I liked Clinton until he admitted lying.

    Obama also doesn’t have 10% of the intelligence, legal knowledge or political skill of Clinton. He really is the definition of “Empty Suit.”

    LOL. he’s only one of the most successful presidents in recent memory. Obama has had to undo a lot of what Clinton did. DOMA, DADT and a economic mess brought on in part because of deregulation that began under Clinton. The hunt for Bin Laden started under Clinton and Obama finally got him. Clinton couldn’t get Hillarycare through Congress and Obama did. In fact presidents have been trying to do what Obama did for over 50 years. Obama essentially did the unfinished business of the Clinton presidency.

    “Obama also doesn’t have 10% of the intelligence, legal knowledge or political skill of Clinton. He really is the definition of “Empty Suit.”

    LOL. Obama was a lawyer and a con law professor. CLinton went to Yale and Obama went to Harvard. Obama is a black man who got elected in what is still a pretty racist country.

  39. 39

    By pfft @ 38:

    LOL. Obama was a lawyer and a con law professor.

    Yes, and as I’ve said in the past, if what he taught was anything close to what he’s said and done as president, that school should drag in all the students he taught for remedial education–free of charge.

    Obama has done really poorly in court, and not all of that is due to the politics of the Supreme Court. The idea that Obamacare was legal under the Commerce Clause, for example, was completely ridiculous.

    And don’t even get me started on Obama ordering American citizens killed. Do you really think he thought that before he had the power–strike that–ability to exercise that action?

  40. 40
    Blurtman says:

    RE: pfft @ 37 – What a poorly researched story, likely due to liberal bias. There were laws on the books that limited immigration from southern and eastern Europe. What kind of lousy writer would omit those in a story? Laws to restrict the entry of white people? Oh, that doesn’t follow the biased meme. Omit. Omit.

    “In 1921, the Congress passed the Emergency Quota Act, followed by the Immigration Act of 1924. The 1924 Act was aimed at further restricting the Southern and Eastern Europeans, especially Jews, Italians, and Slavs, who had begun to enter the country in large numbers beginning in the 1890s.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States

  41. 41
    pfft says:

    By Blurtman @ 40:

    RE: pfft @ 37 – What a poorly researched story, likely due to liberal bias. There were laws on the books that limited immigration from southern and eastern Europe. What kind of lousy writer would omit those in a story? Laws to restrict the entry of white people? Oh, that doesn’t follow the biased meme. Omit. Omit.

    “In 1921, the Congress passed the Emergency Quota Act, followed by the Immigration Act of 1924. The 1924 Act was aimed at further restricting the Southern and Eastern Europeans, especially Jews, Italians, and Slavs, who had begun to enter the country in large numbers beginning in the 1890s.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States

    I guess you didn’t read the article.

    Only with the 1920s Quota Acts did Congress establish national immigration laws encompassing most arrivals.

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/cafe/no-your-ancestors-didn-t-come-here-legally

  42. 42
    Blurtman says:

    RE: pfft @ 41 – And so folks who adhered to the 1920’s laws did arrive here legally. End of meme.

  43. 43
    pfft says:

    By Blurtman @ 42:

    RE: pfft @ 41 – And so folks who adhered to the 1920’s laws did arrive here legally. End of meme.

    what? there are lots of people whose ancestors came here before these laws went into effect. the author never makes any claims of race, just that when many people say my ancestors came here legally probably don’t know immigration law. Also did you notice that they didn’t discriminate against all Europeans, just some? In a way some people didn’t consider them white or even european(or in some cases as humans). As far as I know I don’t have anyone except a grandmother(and I think her mother) who came here after the 20’s and she was not southern or eastern european.

    “End of meme”

    i don’t even know how the term meme would be relevant here.

    the central point of the article is that many immigrants didn’t need to make a decision whether or not to come to this country legally or illegally. There simply were no laws for many.

  44. 44
  45. 45
    Blurtman says:

    RE: pfft @ 43 – It is a ridiculous point of view. Before slavery was illegal, folks did not have to worry if they were breaking the law owning slaves. Therefore, should we not crack down on slave owners today? You can apply this argument to anything – it is a silly point of view. Once law has been established, you are a lawbreaker if you violate the law.

    And yes, what is white has changed over time. And yes, Europeans were subject to racism and ethnic and religious bigotry in the USA. Still are.

  46. 46
    Blurtman says:

    Dave Reichert – what a dumbarse toady! Hey, let’s have industry representatives on the EPA scientific advisory board, replacing unbiased scientists. And the industry representatives don’t even have to be scientists. What could possibly go wrong?

    https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/113-2014/h525

  47. 47
    pfft says:

    By Blurtman @ 45:

    RE: pfft @ 43 – It is a ridiculous point of view. Before slavery was illegal, folks did not have to worry if they were breaking the law owning slaves. Therefore, should we not crack down on slave owners today? You can apply this argument to anything – it is a silly point of view. Once law has been established, you are a lawbreaker if you violate the law.

    And yes, what is white has changed over time. And yes, Europeans were subject to racism and ethnic and religious bigotry in the USA. Still are.

    I don’t think you really understand. some americans are saying very self-satisfactorily that there ancestors came here legally. that is true BUT in many cases there was no choice as to legality or illegality. that isn’t a judgement on what policies we should have today. it’s just that people shouldn’t be all high and mighty because in many cases their ancestors didn’t have to make a choice. people are moralizing when maybe they shouldn’t.

    “Before slavery was illegal, folks did not have to worry if they were breaking the law owning slaves.”

    can I invoke Goodwin’s law? please, the two aren’t even close.

  48. 48
    Blurtman says:

    RE: pfft @ 47 – I guess we will disagree on that one. In the example you cite, the ancestors did not violate the law as none existed. But if I support your argument, then the descendants of folks who legally emigrated to the USA can, I suppose, act high and mighty.

  49. 49
    wreckingbull says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 4 – Since the website is finally up, I am now shopping for a new plan. So I select the plan I want to buy. After spending 30 minutes outside the WA Healthplan Finder site trying to find the plan details (no deep details on the WA site), I finally find them, except the deductibles are completely different than what is being shown for the same 2015 plan on the WA Healthplan Finder site.

    So, I get to call someone on Monday and ask WTF is up. If it is anything like last time I had to call them, it is going to be a long haul. Perfect example of how needlessly inserting a middleman leads to gross inefficiencies.

    Pfft, how did you do? Which plan did you select? I’m dying to know.

  50. 50

    RE: pfft @ 18

    And All the Amnesty Overpopulation Won’t Affect the Environment at All or Drain California’s Empty Water Reserves

    You and the Democrat Sierra Club for more added overpopulation in America live in a complete dream world Pfft. The only true environmentalists are Zero Population [Paul Newman’s choice], FAIRUS.ORG and Numbersusa. The rest are phony as a 3 dollar bill and ya know, I think you already know it too.

  51. 51

    RE: wreckingbull @ 49

    LOL…

    And they can change today’s co-payments tomorrow in a wink of the eye, ask Kary.

  52. 52

    RE: pfft @ 47

    America Unearthed

    Dug up a whole bunch of preserved American ancestors from like 20,000+ years ago….they tested their DNA and they were from France [made it here during the Ice Age when the Atlantic Ocean was frozen]…..well before the oldest American Indians got here.

    Its racist to say these things? Europeans got here first.

  53. 53

    RE: pfft @ 47

    The 14TH Amendment Was Only for the Slaves’ Children in 1860

    It prohibited anchor babies TOTALLY. Read it Pfft. You’ll need a 2/3s legislature vote to change the 14th Amendment to allow anchor babies [that’s never gonna happen], not the other way around your foreign corporate brainwashers Democrats allege.

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