March Stats Preview: Sales slip slightly from last March

Now that March is done, let’s look at our regular monthly “preview” charts. Here’s the summary for March: Sales look to be a bit lower than last year, even as the spring bump has begun. Listings are still struggling to make gains. Foreclosures are still nearly non-existent.

Here’s the snapshot of all the data as far back as my historical information goes, with the latest, high, and low values highlighted for each series:

King & Snohomish County Stats Preview

If sales start falling off, we could see some hope for buyers later in 2018, but right now it’s too early to make a call like that.

Next, let’s look at total home sales as measured by the number of “Warranty Deeds” filed with King County:

King County Warranty Deeds

Sales in King County increased thirty-one percent between February and March (a year ago they rose thirty-nine percent over the same period), and were down six percent year-over-year.

Here’s a look at Snohomish County Deeds, but keep in mind that Snohomish County files Warranty Deeds (regular sales) and Trustee Deeds (bank foreclosure repossessions) together under the category of “Deeds (except QCDS),” so this chart is not as good a measure of plain vanilla sales as the Warranty Deed only data we have in King County.

Snohomish County Deeds

Deeds in Snohomish increased thirty-three percent month-over-month (vs. a thirty-nine percent increase in the same period last year) and were down five percent from a year earlier.

Next, here’s Notices of Trustee Sale, which are an indication of the number of homes currently in the foreclosure process:

King County Notices of Trustee Sale

Snohomish County Notices of Trustee Sale

Foreclosure notices in King County were down fifty percent from a year ago and Snohomish County foreclosure notices were down forty-two percent from last year. The monthly number of foreclosures never really historically goes much lower than it has been over the last year or so.

Here’s another measure of foreclosures for King County, looking at Trustee Deeds, which is the type of document filed with the county when the bank actually repossesses a house through the trustee auction process. Note that there are other ways for the bank to repossess a house that result in different documents being filed, such as when a borrower “turns in the keys” and files a “Deed in Lieu of Foreclosure.”

King County Trustee Deeds

Trustee Deeds were down seventy-five percent from a year ago. The last time we saw levels like what we’ve seen in the last few months was fifteen years ago.

Lastly, here’s an update of the inventory charts, updated with previous months’ inventory data from the NWMLS.

King County SFH Active Listings

Snohomish County SFH Active Listings

Inventory is increasing for spring, up twenty-three percent month-over-month, but is still down two percent year-over-year in King County.

In Snohomish County listings were up fourteen percent month-over-month and down thirteen percent year-over-year.

Note that most of the charts above are based on broad county-wide data that is available through a simple search of King County and Snohomish County public records. If you have additional stats you’d like to see in the preview, drop a line in the comments and I’ll see what I can do.

Stay tuned later this month a for more detailed look at each of these metrics as the “official” data is released from various sources.


About The Tim

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market.

62 comments:

  1. 1
    Deerhawke says:

    For a few weeks this past month, it looked like inventory might be growing again, however slowly.

    But no– that was probably just a statistical glitch or sampling error. This month’s preliminary figures show that inventory is following the same basic pattern of contraction we have seen in previous years, although not as strong a YOY contraction as in previous years.

    The difference now is that we can see that the lack of inventory is having a real effect on sales volume.

    This morning’s Seattle Times had a story about how people who would otherwise have stayed in the area are looking to leave because of the surge in property taxes.

    https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/enough-is-enough-some-local-homeowners-say-this-years-property-tax-increase-will-force-them-to-move/

    My guess is that the increase in property taxes may not be a significant factor in bringing new inventory on the market. It would be countered by the interest rate effect. People who bought houses in the last year or two may face higher rates if they want to sell to move up. Meanwhile people who focus on what rising interest rates will do to their payment may want to jump in now rather than wait for later.

    Kary posted an interesting link in the previous thread about the lack of inventory.
    http://www.telegram.com/news/20180329/kenneth-harney-why-wannabe-sellers-are-looking-but-not-listing-their-homes

    This is not just a local phenomenon. It is a national one. Anyone have theories or good data on why?

  2. 2

    RE: Deerhawke @ 1 – I agre that increased RE taxes would probably not be a significant factor. It’s probably just more about people complaining about taxes. But if that does actually force someone to move, I wonder how well they can keep up with maintenance.

    And on the topic of maintenance, I’d hate to see the average condition of the houses getting foreclosed today. We’re very close to the low level of foreclosure activity, and note that the notice of trustee sale stat can be misleading because there can be more than one for each property.

  3. 3
    greg you says:

    Reasons to sell now.

    1) Mortgage rates are going up.

    2) Many baby boomers in the area will be looking to sell to take profits and move to areas with less taxes etc. You do not want to be selling when this wave hits.

    3) Given tech companies high valuations, they will be looking for ways to extend their runway. Starting shop in other areas with lower cost of living is a no-brainer. Just look at Amazon.

    4) The key to investing is having the liquidity to buy when some asset is on sale. To put yourself in such a position you need to have done something the majority did not, ie bought when no-one was buying, sold when no-one was selling.

  4. 4
    Deerhawke says:

    RE: greg you @ 3

    This all makes perfect sense. But maybe this isnt a perfectly rational decision.

    I am a boomer myself. I bought two houses from neighbors on my block who were selling in order to leave the area.

    But there is surprising resistance from people who are retiring to leaving the area. You hear an awful lot of complaining about the taxes, but people have a remarkable range of reasons for not selling and leaving.
    Our kids/grandkids are here. we are really tied into our church/music group/bridge group, I grew up here and all my friends are here, etc.

    Most of the answers all boil down to the same thing. People have grown roots. The other reason is denial.

    I know one neat old guy who is in his mid 90’s and fought in the Pacific during WWII. He had a health crisis about 6 years ago and moved in with his daughter for a month or so. He never moved back. He has the house and yard maintained and pays the taxes.

    Why not sell? Well he said there is no good reason to sell since the price just keeps going up. True, but that is not really it. He is in denial and doesnt want to admit that he never will move back into the house where he lived since the 40’s and raised a family.

    And if anything it will be worse with the boomers. We were the rebellious generation that said we would always be young and wouldn’t trust anybody over 30. You think you are going to pack us off to an old folks home or to a condo in Arizona? Nope.

    Honesty, I think this mindset is a part of our current inventory problem.

  5. 5
    pfft says:

    By Deerhawke @ 4:

    RE: greg you @ 3

    This all makes perfect sense. But maybe this isnt a perfectly rational decision.

    I am a boomer myself. I bought two houses from neighbors on my block who were selling in order to leave the area.

    But there is surprising resistance from people who are retiring to leaving the area. You hear an awful lot of complaining about the taxes, but people have a remarkable range of reasons for not selling and leaving.
    Our kids/grandkids are here. we are really tied into our church/music group/bridge group, I grew up here and all my friends are here, etc.

    yep.

  6. 6
    greg you says:

    Interesting observations Deerhawke. The gentleman you mentioned who fought in WWII would have been part of the greatest generation right? So he probably wasn’t the type to take on credit debt, get into car leases, etc. etc.

    The baby boomer on the other hand invented the credit card, the arm mortgage etc. Many boomers find themselves financial burdened at a time where they’d like to retire or can’t find work.

    For many, they simply won’t have an option, they will need to sell.

  7. 7
    N says:

    @ Deerhawke – If you wanted to take the opposite view and believe inventory is coming up over last year’s lows you could point to that fact that this past weekend was Easter weekend and holiday weekends always lead to a huge reduction in number of new listings for the week. It also happened to be the last weekend of the month so it affected month end inventory more than it would have in week 2 or 3. If the month had ended a week earlier you would have seen nearly a double digit increase over prior year. Sure, its cherry picking numbers, all I am saying is it’s still possible based on the early going that inventory will be up this year.

  8. 8
    BitcoinBubble says:

    RE: Deerhawke @ 4 – Interesting points. The black and white financial analysis says many of these folks should have headed for “greener” (less expensive) pastures a few years ago. Yet they stay.

    How many will come on the market as soon as it stalls out? Not selling while prices are rising.

  9. 9
    ess says:

    I think much of it has to do with the fact that so many of these people who don’t want to leave are those who came to the Puget Sound area from other places. They have a great deal of emotional capital invested because they actually picked up once from areas not to their liking and really fell in love with the place and (once upon a time) could afford to buy here. This was their perfect home that they were searching for. I think it is hard for many of those individuals to admit that it may be time to moving on again as a result of prices, taxes or change of environment as Seattle and area is nothing like it was 25 -40 years ago.

  10. 10
    timetosell says:

    Chinese investment in Seattle commercial real estate plummets 81 percent

    https://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/news/2018/03/30/chinese-investment-drops-seattle-cre-deals.html

  11. 11
    timetosell says:

    ‘Enough is enough’: Some local homeowners say this year’s property-tax increase will force them to move

    https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/enough-is-enough-some-local-homeowners-say-this-years-property-tax-increase-will-force-them-to-move/

  12. 12
  13. 13
    jon says:

    RE: Deerhawke @ 4 – Who in their 90s would want to go through the pain of cleaning out and selling a home like that just to pick up some extra money. You can’t take it with you.

    Its too bad for the people whose budget cannot handle the increased taxes, but that problem applies to renters as well as owners. The owners are at least in much better shape than the renters, who are also being priced out.

  14. 14
    Deerhawke says:

    RE: N @ 7

    In a market already starved for inventory, 2-4% less inventory could have a substantial impact on prices and sales. If the change went in the opposite direction and we got 2-4% more inventory, I doubt if that would have the same effect in the opposite direction. We are so inventory starved that we would need to have a large and sustained change in inventory to really effect this market. We are incredibly far from a position of market balance.

  15. 15
    ess says:

    By jon @ 10:

    RE: Deerhawke @ 4 – Who in their 90s would want to go through the pain of cleaning out and selling a home like that just to pick up some extra money. You can’t take it with you.

    Its too bad for the people whose budget cannot handle the increased taxes, but that problem applies to renters as well as owners. The owners are at least in much better shape than the renters, who are also being priced out.

    Finally renters are putting together the correlation that when property taxes go up due to all sorts of initiatives – many unrelated to property but placed on property – so do their rents. It will be interesting to see if that learning experience is translated into action at the voting booth. (I know – no voting booths in King County).

    The next learning experience will be that when land that could be used to construct housing is no longer available as a result of open space initiatives, (or in this state the GMA) that the reduction of available land also affects prices for both homeowners and renters. That will be a harder lesson for many to comprehend.

  16. 16
    wreckingbull says:

    I’m not sure if anyone has caught wind of a trend going on in our country, but Baby Boomers, ill prepared for retirement, are becoming nomads and living in cars and vans. Some, because they like the lifestyle, but many because they have no choice.

    I can’t believe how many of these people I run into these days in my own travels. It is both sad and inspiring at the same time. Some of the people I meet are invigorated, while others are desperate.

    http://www.cheaprvliving.com/

  17. 17
    Erik says:

    I like how you provided so many links in the text Tim. Makes learning easier. Keep up the good work!

  18. 18

    By ess @ 15:

    By jon @ 10:

    RE: Deerhawke @ 4 – Who in their 90s would want to go through the pain of cleaning out and selling a home like that just to pick up some extra money. You can’t take it with you.

    Its too bad for the people whose budget cannot handle the increased taxes, but that problem applies to renters as well as owners. The owners are at least in much better shape than the renters, who are also being priced out.

    Finally renters are putting together the correlation that when property taxes go up due to all sorts of initiatives – many unrelated to property but placed on property – so do their rents. .

    Correlation is not causation. Taxes are not what is driving rents right now, at least for the professional landlords. So if tenants are putting those two things together, they are learning the wrong thing.

  19. 19
    Eastsider says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 18:

    Correlation is not causation. Taxes are not what is driving rents right now, at least for the professional landlords. So if tenants are putting those two things together, they are learning the wrong thing.

    Taxes are always driving rents. High tax states have high rents unless you are a liberal/progressive.

  20. 20

    RE: Eastsider @ 19 – Nope. High tax states tend to have more thriving economies (although not due to the taxes), and thus higher demand in general and higher rents, gasoline prices, grocery prices, car prices, etc. You don’t pay more for a gallon of gas in Bellevue than Renton due to the real estate taxes.

  21. 21
    Brian says:

    By Deerhawke @ 14:

    RE: N @ 7
    In a market already starved for inventory, 2-4% less inventory could have a substantial impact on prices and sales. If the change went in the opposite direction and we got 2-4% more inventory, I doubt if that would have the same effect in the opposite direction. We are so inventory starved that we would need to have a large and sustained change in inventory to really effect this market. We are incredibly far from a position of market balance.

    That would be the case if prices weren’t rising astronomically to go along with the decreasing inventory. Rising prices = less demand. If inventory rises and prices continue up, demand won’t keep pace.

  22. 22

    RE: greg you @ 3
    Yes Greg

    Ask SWE…..ya age fast as time goes on, before ya know it you’re getting old.

    I’m blessed with good health, lucky dog riches and keep my mind sharp….I hope I got the good DNA for long life too….LOL

    $1000-2000/mo Escrow without mortgage payments may seem affordable to a few of the really rich elite; but to the average and above average Seattle area incomes its horrifying. Imagine paying these same high property taxes [with horrifying maintenance bills] on a fixed retirement income over $40K/YR ….

    I’m sure the budget planning is a hopeless cause.

  23. 23

    RE: timetosell @ 11
    They Mask the Exodus From Seattle?

    The Seattle area 50 Year old freeway system would still be a clogged parking lot if half the population moved out [ref: 1980s]….so current clogged traffic is a poor parameter.

    When did our news sources turn into Mother Goose Tales?

    Even Trump is mad at everyone lately….I see CNN and MSNBC are “somewhat” leaving him alone lately….many of their coward ilk are getting fired attacking him….LOL….he’s the mean boss man in charge and we fear his righteous wrath….LOL

  24. 24
    N says:

    High taxes don’t drive rents anywhere close to the degree that supply and demand does. Just because a landlord has higher expenses doesn’t mean he can charge more. Ask any landlord who went through 2009-2012 or perhaps any of these landlords buying today to rent, clearly they are taking a loss each month.

  25. 25

    RE: softwarengineer @ 23 – Maybe NBC is losing viewers? I’m one who moved from NBC to PBS because I got tired of their patent bias. Colbert can attract viewers with that sort of thing, but no one expects him to be unbiased (although Johnny Carson apparently went out of his way to be so–making fun of everyone equally).

  26. 26
    N says:

    @ Deerhawke – Very true. Likely the eventual change in the market will be driven at least to a large degree by other factors than just inventory, such as lower demand. As Ardell has posted before, when it changes, it can happen in a hurry.

  27. 27

    RE: N @ 26 – I think we’re likely to need lower demand to get to higher inventory. Higher prices don’t seem to be doing it. Maybe the higher taxes will get more people to sell, but personally I think that is more about complaining about taxes more than anything else.

  28. 28
    Eastsider says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 20:

    RE: Eastsider @ 19 – Nope. High tax states tend to have more thriving economies (although not due to the taxes), and thus higher demand in general and higher rents, gasoline prices, grocery prices, car prices, etc. You don’t pay more for a gallon of gas in Bellevue than Renton due to the real estate taxes.

    According to your misguided belief, the price of a can of coke has no relation to taxes. You probably have not filled up your gas tank just outside King County boundary. LOL.

    Seattleites making a run to the border for … Coke?
    https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattleites-making-a-run-to-the-border-for-coke/

  29. 29
    Eastsider says:

    By Brian @ 21:

    By Deerhawke @ 14:

    RE: N @ 7
    In a market already starved for inventory, 2-4% less inventory could have a substantial impact on prices and sales. If the change went in the opposite direction and we got 2-4% more inventory, I doubt if that would have the same effect in the opposite direction. We are so inventory starved that we would need to have a large and sustained change in inventory to really effect this market. We are incredibly far from a position of market balance.

    That would be the case if prices weren’t rising astronomically to go along with the decreasing inventory. Rising prices = less demand. If inventory rises and prices continue up, demand won’t keep pace.

    The housing supply-demand curve is apparently steep in Seattle when supply is low and demand is high. Yet when the situation reverses, the curve somehow does not apply. Maybe Seattle is not subject to supply-demand economics. Ha!

  30. 30

    RE: Eastsider @ 28 – I didn’t say no relation, nor did I address sales taxes. The topic was real estate taxes, and in the prior post I mentioned that correlation is not causation.

    But the idea that the seller of anything can just automatically pass on costs of any product in any market borders on the moronic (or well past merely moronic), which is why it’s repeated so much by the press. Most members of the press don’t understand business, economics or much of anything else. And that means that you should quit believing them just because they’ve repeated things to you repeatedly.

    As to your gas price comment, I’ve never noticed a price difference on a county line, and I drive all over the place and notice gas prices. Native American reservations are another matter entirely, so perhaps that’s what you’re noticing. But I used Renton and Bellevue on purpose. Gas is particularly cheap in the downtown Renton area.

    But do you think King County has a separate gas tax?

    Finally, you do realize that if people are going elsewhere besides Seattle to buy Coke that’s evidence that the seller cannot pass along the tax, right? If the taxes could be passed along, Costco would be selling just as much Coke at its Seattle stores (and doing just as much other business) as before the tax was imposed.

  31. 31

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 25 – He tried to play by normal rules for that time slot vs what made him famous enough to get the job, but it started looking like he might go the way of Conan with early ratings languishing. He then reverted to who he always was, somewhat, and it worked out better for him before he was fired. At that point he had nothing to lose by taking the gamble.

  32. 32

    RE: ARDELL DellaLoggia @ 31 – I assume you’re talking about Colbert. Actually he’s the opposite of what he was before Before he was a pretend conservative where now he’s a disgruntled liberal. Totally different vibe.

    As to Conan, NBC screwed him by pandering to Leno.

  33. 33
    David says:

    I don’t listen to any news network. I read to find the facts. Oddly, I find Trump to be the only one who tells the truth. Everyone tries to make it sound like he is ‘uninformed’ and for a couple of months that hangs on and works. Then it turns out Trump was actually accurate.

    Is Amazon really forcing taxpayers to subsidize their package delivery? Trump is certainly doubling and tripling down on it – to the consternation of the WaPo.

    PBS radio sounds the same as it did 20 years ago with the same tired sounding themes repeated over and over and….. And they make people sound weak and flaccid.

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 25

  34. 34

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 32 – Agree, which is why I said “somewhat”. Political…but not the same bent. Still, more in line with the type of humor that made him famous.

  35. 35
    Jake says:

    @33 “Oddly, I find Trump to be the only one who tells the truth.”

    Lol. Ok then.

  36. 36

    RE: David @ 33 – Many years ago the USPS was using First Class mail revenue to subsidize parcel post (boxes) delivery. That is now illegal, and I don’t know of anyone but Trump who is claiming that they are still doing that. I would expect UPS and FedEx would be complaining loudly if they thought that was occurring because they were complaining before, but I’ve not heard anything from them (but I haven’t searched it out).

  37. 37
    Green-Horn says:

    RE: Deerhawke @ 4

    Really interesting cultural / psychological insight about the generations.
    Each certainly has its own unique personality.

    Always enjoy the thoughtful remarks you share.

    Speaking of generations, what is everybody’s observations about the younger generations?
    My impression has been that family and children aren’t the priorities that they were in prior generations. I have seen numerous statistics to back up the phenomenon, but nothing that has been nearly as stark as my encounter of so many adventurous globe-trotting and otherwise carefree “eternal-adolescent” childless-by-choicers in Seattle.

    Consolation for the SFR business?
    They’ll still need plenty of space for all their dogs, cats and other fur-babies that they can’t seem to live without.

    Consider possible other more revolutionary living arrangements as traditional life-cycles & living arrangements get deconstructed and reinvented. All those eternal adolescents may yearn for some kind of elected community to replace the family household. Perhaps it’ll look like dorm life on an employer sponsored “campus?” Or otherwise something like WeLive (WeWork’s communal housing offshoot of their communal working model) Or consider this case in SF…
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/04/technology/dorm-living-grown-ups-san-francisco.html

    First a fashion seems to have led many abandon the suburbs.
    Perhaps the next fashion will lead many to abandon traditional family or solitary residences?

  38. 38
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 36:

    RE: David @ 33 – Many years ago the USPS was using First Class mail revenue to subsidize parcel post (boxes) delivery. That is now illegal, and I don’t know of anyone but Trump who is claiming that they are still doing that.

    Trump doesn’t know anything about anything so…

  39. 39
    ronp says:

    RE: David @ 33 – Dude, https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2017/11/14/president-trump-has-made-1628-false-or-misleading-claims-over-298-days/?utm_term=.2259478d2848

    More related to the topic — 1. a segment of people are always not moving because they cannot find something they like and 2. retirees are always moving to lower cost areas, but most do not.

  40. 40
    pfft says:

    RE: ronp @ 39 – David Dennison has told more lies than probably any other public figure in US history.

  41. 41
    David says:

    LOL, yeah right the WaPo said it so it must be true. They’re the presidential Snopes.com!!

    RE: ronp @ 39

  42. 42
    Bubble Trouble says:

    Finally renters are putting together the correlation that when property taxes go up due to all sorts of initiatives – many unrelated to property but placed on property – so do their rents. It will be interesting to see if that learning experience is translated into action at the voting booth. (I know – no voting booths in King County).

    The next learning experience will be that when land that could be used to construct housing is no longer available as a result of open space initiatives, (or in this state the GMA) that the reduction of available land also affects prices for both homeowners and renters. That will be a harder lesson for many to comprehend.

    I doubt it. Most people – and especially renters – just want to stick it to THE MAN!! Never mind that when THE MAN gets taxed more, he just passes those taxes down to the plebes.

    As for land restriction, enviros don’t care. They’re perfectly fine with millions of people suffering as long as the mollusk or spotted owl isn’t inconvenienced.

  43. 43
    Bubble Trouble says:

    Seattle imposed that sales tax on guns with the specific aim of putting gun stores out of business . And then about 20 nanoseconds later, liberals went back to insisting that higher taxes don’t affect the economy in a negative way.

  44. 44
    Blake says:

    RE: David @ 33
    David: “I find Trump to be the only one who tells the truth.”

    Thanks David… That’s the best laugh I’ve had in weeks!!
    You Trump voters truly are like cult followers. Fearless leader is the “only one” who tells the truth!

    Plus he’s a Super Genius. Who else would brag about his stock market and then incite a trade war and start attacking one of the largest, best performing companies? Fearless leader can do no wrong…

  45. 45

    RE: Blake @ 42 – Trump supporters are not all that different from the Hillary supporters in their zeal and ignoring of facts. Unfortunately those two groups controlled the primaries.

  46. 46

    On the topic of foreign investment, this is an area where I’ve noticed quite a bit of activity locally (although not all of it Chinese). Rather interesting that they seem to pick states where weed is illegal to setup their grow operations.

    https://www.seattletimes.com/business/us-seizes-pot-growing-houses-tied-to-china-based-criminals/

  47. 47
    pfft says:

    By David @ 41:

    LOL, yeah right the WaPo said it so it must be true. They’re the presidential Snopes.com!!

    RE: ronp @ 39

    Donald Trump(aka David Dennison) fact check straight from Canada.

    He’s up to 1400 false things said.

    http://projects.thestar.com/donald-trump-fact-check/

  48. 48
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 43:

    RE: Blake @ 42 – Trump supporters are not all that different from the Hillary supporters in their zeal and ignoring of facts.

    yeah no.

  49. 49

    By pfft @ 46:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 43:

    RE: Blake @ 42 – Trump supporters are not all that different from the Hillary supporters in their zeal and ignoring of facts.

    yeah no.

    LOL, you’re the prime example! I was actually thinking about you when I wrote that!

    People like you are the reason we have Trump, but people like you are in complete denial about the impact of their actions. Hillary was an inexperienced candidate, a horrible candidate and a corrupt candidate, but you thought she was the most experienced, most qualified candidate ever! And you still don’t realize you were wrong even though she was beaten by someone as horrible as Trump! Complete and total denial.

  50. 50
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 47:

    By pfft @ 46:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 43:

    RE: Blake @ 42 – Trump supporters are not all that different from the Hillary supporters in their zeal and ignoring of facts.

    yeah no.

    LOL, you’re the prime example! I was actually thinking about you when I wrote that!

    People like you are the reason we have Trump, but people like you are in complete denial about the impact of their actions. Hillary was an inexperienced candidate, a horrible candidate and a corrupt candidate, but you thought she was the most experienced, most qualified candidate ever! And you still don’t realize you were wrong even though she was beaten by someone as horrible as Trump! Complete and total denial.

    You really couldn’t be more wrong, she won the popular vote. The media went nuts with her emails. And of course Russia hacked her campaign and probably colluded with the Trump campaign. Of course there was also Comey. She got more negative coverage than Trump. Every time you turned on the TV they were covering a Trump rally live. It’s like you have a bad memory.

    “Hillary was an inexperienced candidate”

    And Trump wasn’t? Was Trump ever a Senator? Sec of state?

    As we have seen, Hillary would have been a much better President.

  51. 51

    RE: pfft @ 50 – OMG, I knew you would respond with “she won the popular vote.” Just more classic Hillary supporter denial. She won California and New York too! That doesn’t matter either.

    That she lost to a totally inexperienced candidate (who just had a short stint running for President four years earlier) doesn’t make it any better! That makes her an even worse candidate!

    Again, complete and total denial! It’s classic.

    BTW, hard to say which would be worse. Totally incompetent versus totally corrupt. That’s a toss-up in my mind, which is why my cat Rocky ran for President in 2016. Even a cat could see that Hillary and Trump were bad choices–unlike those primary voters which gave us that bad choice.

  52. 52
    Eastsider says:

    pfft – “Every time you turned on the TV they were covering a Trump rally live.”

    How many Clinton rallies were there compared to Trump? It’s like you have a bad memory. This is hilarious!

  53. 53

    RE: Eastsider @ 52 – The more hillarious thing from pfft in that post was this: “She got more negative coverage than Trump. ”

    How many times was the press covering something Trump did or said that conventional wisdom said would be the end of his campaign? It might be true that Trump got more coverage, but that’s because there were so many bad things Trump did/said to cover.

    What pfft and Hillary supporters in denial don’t realize is that if Hillary lost to Trump she would have almost certainly lost to everyone else in the 15+ candidate Republican clown car. She was a horrible candidate and a horrible choice, but the die-hard Hillary supporters don’t want to acknowledge is their role in giving us Trump.

    Finally, to make this clear, I’m not talking about voting for Hillary during the election. I’m talking about supporting her during the primaries and even prior to that. Those people drove the Democratic party off a cliff that was very obvious.

  54. 54
    Blake says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 45:

    RE: Blake @ 42 – Trump supporters are not all that different from the Hillary supporters in their zeal and ignoring of facts. Unfortunately those two groups controlled the primaries.

    Kary… I totally agree. My mother and many of my friends are Hillarybots and Obamabots and they have asked me to stop telling them anything bad about their heroes. I can’t stand partisanship and hero worship… it makes smart people stupid.

  55. 55
    Blake says:

    By pfft @ 48:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 43:

    RE: Blake @ 42 – Trump supporters are not all that different from the Hillary supporters in their zeal and ignoring of facts.

    yeah no.

    Yup… Speaking of Hillarybots and Obamabots!
    I was happy when pfft disappeared for a while…

    I try not to bother arguing with die hard Trump supporters, born-again xtians, religious nuts, new agers and Hillarybots. Reason doesn’t work because the KNOW the Truth… they are emotional and The Truth makes them feel all warm and comfortable.

  56. 56
    pfft says:

    By Eastsider @ 52:

    pfft – “Every time you turned on the TV they were covering a Trump rally live.”

    How many Clinton rallies were there compared to Trump? It’s like you have a bad memory. This is hilarious!

    $2 Billion Worth of Free Media for Donald Trump
    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/16/upshot/measuring-donald-trumps-mammoth-advantage-in-free-media.html

    Roughly speaking, Trump has gotten more than twice as much network attention as Clinton.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/trump-gets-way-more-tv-news-time-than-clinton-so-what/2016/09/21/719d1bac-7ea9-11e6-8d0c-fb6c00c90481_story.html?utm_term=.0c4cd51899ee

    Study: Trump boosted, Clinton hurt by primary media coverage
    https://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/media-study-trump-helped-clinton-hurt-224300

  57. 57
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 51:

    RE: pfft @ 50 – OMG, I knew you would respond with “she won the popular vote.” Just more classic Hillary supporter denial. She won California and New York too! That doesn’t matter either.

    That she lost to a totally inexperienced candidate (who just had a short stint running for President four years earlier) doesn’t make it any better! That makes her an even worse candidate!

    Again, complete and total denial! It’s classic.

    BTW, hard to say which would be worse. Totally incompetent versus totally corrupt. That’s a toss-up in my mind, which is why my cat Rocky ran for President in 2016. Even a cat could see that Hillary and Trump were bad choices–unlike those primary voters which gave us that bad choice.

    So NY and CA don’t count? Trump is from Queens. He lost where he was born(Queens), his adopted home(Manhattan) and his own state(NY). HIllary Clinton would have made an awesome president. Trump(aka David Dennison) is one of the worst presidents ever.

  58. 58
    pfft says:

    By Blake @ 54:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 45:

    RE: Blake @ 42 – Trump supporters are not all that different from the Hillary supporters in their zeal and ignoring of facts. Unfortunately those two groups controlled the primaries.

    Kary… I totally agree. My mother and many of my friends are Hillarybots and Obamabots and they have asked me to stop telling them anything bad about their heroes. I can’t stand partisanship and hero worship… it makes smart people stupid.

    We all know that Bernie supporters were so rational about their candidate.

    “My mother and many of my friends are Hillarybots and Obamabots and they have asked me to stop telling them anything bad about their heroes.”

    You mean lies you read on Facebook and twitter?

  59. 59
    pfft says:

    By Blake @ 55:

    By pfft @ 48:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 43:

    RE: Blake @ 42 – Trump supporters are not all that different from the Hillary supporters in their zeal and ignoring of facts.

    yeah no.

    Yup… Speaking of Hillarybots and Obamabots!
    I was happy when pfft disappeared for a while…

    I try not to bother arguing with die hard Trump supporters, born-again xtians, religious nuts, new agers and Hillarybots. Reason doesn’t work because the KNOW the Truth… they are emotional and The Truth makes them feel all warm and comfortable.

    I am most definitely not a Hillarybot. I know her strengths and weaknesses. I just think see would have been a great choice for president. So did 65 million other people. Or at least they voted for her. Better than the disaster Trump has been.

  60. 60

    By pfft @ 56:

    So NY and CA don’t count? Trump is from Queens. He lost where he was born(Queens), his adopted home(Manhattan) and his own state(NY). HIllary Clinton would have made an awesome president. Trump(aka David Dennison) is one of the worst presidents ever.

    They count, but the rules are you have to win the most votes in the Electoral College. So it doesn’t matter that she won the popular vote or one in two liberal states, etc. She lost. To the second worst presidential candidate in history!

    As to Trump losing in NY, even my cat Rocky knows that Hillary, Trump and even Bernie had NY connections. I’m surprised you don’t know that. Given that it’s not too surprising Trump would lose there given NY’s liberal slant and Hillary’s connections. Also I’d point out that Al Gore and McGovern both lost in their home states. Not that unusual.

    HIllary [sic] Clinton would have made an awesome president.

    Thank you for providing yet another example of complete and total denial. Hillary is a horrible, corrupt and dishonest person, married to a corrupt, dishonest man, and she would have made a horrible President, on par with what we have now but for different reasons. You still don’t get why she lost, because you’re in complete and total denial. You think Hillary is somehow wonderful. She is disgusting and even Democrats are now saying she should just disappear. Here’s the cite you will undoubtedly ask for.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/15/politics/heidi-heitkamp-hillary-clinton-not-soon-enough/index.html

    Hillary’s ego gave us Trump! If you don’t like Trump you should hate her more than anyone.

  61. 61
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 58:

    By pfft @ 56:

    So NY and CA don’t count? Trump is from Queens. He lost where he was born(Queens), his adopted home(Manhattan) and his own state(NY). HIllary Clinton would have made an awesome president. Trump(aka David Dennison) is one of the worst presidents ever.

    They count, but the rules are you have to win the most votes in the Electoral College. So it doesn’t matter that she won the popular vote or one in two liberal states, etc. She lost. To the second worst presidential candidate in history!

    As to Trump losing in NY, even my cat Rocky knows that Hillary, Trump and even Bernie had NY connections. I’m surprised you don’t know that. Given that it’s not too surprising Trump would lose there given NY’s liberal slant and Hillary’s connections. Also I’d point out that Al Gore and McGovern both lost in their home states. Not that unusual.

    HIllary [sic] Clinton would have made an awesome president.

    Thank you for providing yet another example of complete and total denial. Hillary is a horrible, corrupt and dishonest person, married to a corrupt, dishonest man, and she would have made a horrible President, on par with what we have now but for different reasons. You still don’t get why she lost, because you’re in complete and total denial. You think Hillary is somehow wonderful. She is disgusting and even Democrats are now saying she should just disappear. Here’s the cite you will undoubtedly ask for.

    https://www.cnn.com/2018/03/15/politics/heidi-heitkamp-hillary-clinton-not-soon-enough/index.html

    Hillary’s ego gave us Trump! If you don’t like Trump you should hate her more than anyone.

    You just know nothing about politics. It’s like how Fox viewers are stupider about current events than those who consume no news.

  62. 62

    RE: pfft @ 59 – LOL. The person who still thinks highly of Hillary thinks I don’t know anything about politics.

    Thank you for once again for demonstrating complete and total denial. You really are an extreme example of what I was talking about in post 45 when I said: “Trump supporters are not all that different from the Hillary supporters in their zeal and ignoring of facts.”

    But hey, go ahead and keep making excuses and blaming others for Hillary’s loss. And keep pretending that her taking control of the Democratic party to ensure her nomination didn’t give us President Trump. And keep pretending that you understand politics, because in actual fact you don’t have a clue about politics.

    BTW, in case you’re wondering why I keep mentioning my cat Rocky it’s because I realized what a disaster the 2016 election would be back in March 2016, and started my cat running for President on Facebook. I’m not claiming I knew Trump would win, but I knew it would be a disaster whoever won. So the point was my cat was a better candidate than anyone running in March 2016 in either party. So it’s not like I’ve ever liked Trump or Hillary. But if Hillary was the best candidate the Democrats could run in 2016, that party is in serious trouble. Hopefully now that she’s no longer in control of them they will recover.

    Oh, and again, you don’t know politics. You just repeat what the Democrats tell you to say without thinking, because that’s all you’re capable of.

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