June Stats Preview: Listings surge even higher in June

Remember, you can always get access to the Seattle Bubble spreadsheets by supporting my ongoing work as a member of Seattle Bubble.

Last month we noticed a big surge in listings in King County in our preview data for May, and in June it looks like the trend is getting stronger. On-market listings of single-family homes nearly hit their highest point in four years in June, surging 28 percent in a single month.

The overall summary for June is that sales edged up from May, but saw the biggest year-over-year decline since April 2011. Listings shot up and are starting to form a very interesting trend. Foreclosures are still few and far between.

Here’s the snapshot of all the data as far back as my historical information goes, with the latest, high, and low values highlighted for each series:

King & Snohomish County Stats Preview

Since this is still the biggest news, let’s start with an update of the inventory charts, updated with previous month’s inventory data from the NWMLS.

King County SFH Active Listings

Snohomish County SFH Active Listings

The number of homes on the market in King County shot up twenty-eight percent in June. Last month I was concerned that the surge might be a data collection error, but the NWMLS official numbers confirmed it, and the trend is getting stronger. Year-over-year listings were up 43 percent from June 2017, which is the largest year-over-year listings increase since April 2008.

In Snohomish County the inventory gains were still smaller at fifteen percent, but they are picking up some steam as well.

Next, let’s look at total home sales as measured by the number of “Warranty Deeds” filed with King County:

King County Warranty Deeds

Sales in King County increased four percent between May and June (a year ago they rose ten percent over the same period), but were down thirteen percent year-over-year.

It’s still far too early for buyers to throw a party to celebrate the market turning in their favor, but the increasing supply and softening demand we’ve seen in the last few months is definitely encouraging.

Here’s a look at Snohomish County Deeds, but keep in mind that Snohomish County files Warranty Deeds (regular sales) and Trustee Deeds (bank foreclosure repossessions) together under the category of “Deeds (except QCDS),” so this chart is not as good a measure of plain vanilla sales as the Warranty Deed only data we have in King County.

Snohomish County Deeds

Deeds in Snohomish increased six percent month-over-month (vs. a eleven percent increase in the same period last year) and were down six percent from a year earlier.

Next, here’s Notices of Trustee Sale, which are an indication of the number of homes currently in the foreclosure process:

King County Notices of Trustee Sale

Snohomish County Notices of Trustee Sale

Foreclosure notices in King County were down thirty-eight percent from a year ago and Snohomish County foreclosure notices were down forty-nine percent from last year. Eventually it won’t be possible for these numbers to get lower.

Here’s another measure of foreclosures for King County, looking at Trustee Deeds, which is the type of document filed with the county when the bank actually repossesses a house through the trustee auction process. Note that there are other ways for the bank to repossess a house that result in different documents being filed, such as when a borrower “turns in the keys” and files a “Deed in Lieu of Foreclosure.”

King County Trustee Deeds

Trustee Deeds were down sixty-nine percent from a year ago. The only time there have been fewer trustee deeds than we’ve seen over the last few months was August through October of 2003.

Note that most of the charts above are based on broad county-wide data that is available through a simple search of King County and Snohomish County public records. If you have additional stats you’d like to see in the preview, drop a line in the comments and I’ll see what I can do.

Stay tuned later this month a for more detailed look at each of these metrics as the “official” data is released from various sources.

0.00 avg. rating (0% score) - 0 votes

About The Tim

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market. Tim also hosts the weekly improv comedy sci-fi podcast Dispatches from the Multiverse.

151 comments:

  1. 1
    pfft says:

    You all should worry when YOY sales number turn negative.

  2. 2

    I don’t see how the number of active listings could be a “data collection error.” That’s the one number probably least subject to error, except for—a few listings are double listed. Either because they are close to another NMWLS area or because it’s a condo that is somewhat like a house. But that type of thing shouldn’t change dramatically and only affects a few listings.

  3. 3

    By pfft @ 1:

    You all should worry when YOY sales number turn negative.

    June is likely going to be roughly the same, either slightly above or slightly below last year (and the year before that). But we’re still at the point where low inventory was impacting sales–July would be a better judge of that sort of thing, and August even better.

  4. 4
    BellevueTheLivable says:

    I’m not anybody but a reader, but I think this summer is the the top. I check the Fin of Redness often and you can definitely see the listings flooding the map. The main thing is that we are past the peak of the business cycle and stocks aren’t going any higher. Next spring will be lower than this spring I think.

    Notice that in the dot com bust of the late 90s, one of the few cities to have the housing prices drop is San Francisco. Lots of stock bonuses leads to buying g power decreasing when macroeconomics looks bad of the area is swoll with tech workers.

  5. 5

    By BellevueTheLivable @ 4:

    Notice that in the dot com bust of the late 90s, one of the few cities to have the housing prices drop is San Francisco. Lots of stock bonuses leads to buying g power decreasing when macroeconomics looks bad of the area is swoll with tech workers.

    And if I’m recalling correctly, a lot of them did “funny” thinks with their stock options, basically leveraging them in a way that resulted in a tax consequence on the day of acting, and then not enough money to even pay the tax when the bill came due. They were basically convinced the stock had no where to go but up, and when it didn’t they became insolvent with tax debt.

  6. 6
    matt says:

    Everyone is trying to cash out

  7. 7

    RE: matt @ 6 – If by everyone you mean well less than 1% of the population. Sure. ;-)

  8. 8
    redmondjp says:

    I’m seeing more inventory in my local neighborhood than I have seen for the past several years, whatever that means.

    Oh, and “the Fin of Redness” in post #4 above is awesome – thanks for that!

  9. 9

    I’m Starting to See a Few Open Used Homes in Kent

    A sprinkling of a few units, still zero at my HOA. Things are looking much better ;-)

  10. 10
    Wile E. Millenial says:

    I have noticed a lot of “sky is falling” talk around rates for the last several years, but I can’t help but notice WF is advertising a 30y fixed at 4.75%. Scary stuff. Feel like this has been repeated since 2011 when I got a loan at (checks my spreadsheet) oh huh, 4.625%…

    Now that I see a few nice houses that have been slightly overpriced and are languishing, it almost feels like an opportune time to trade up. However, I still see other houses going for eye-popping prices. Some of the activity in my area feels “noisy” in the sense that a lot of transactions go either way over or way under expectations.

  11. 11

    RE: Wile E. Millenial @ 10
    A Lot of the Old Seattle Bubble Folks Thought I Was Nuts Paying Off an $80+K principle in 1999 and not letting it turn into a 20 year 4.5% ARM in 2009

    I estimate I made $30-50K to date being my own bank instead of paying any interest at all….its about 10 years since I became debt free….the ARM’s principle would be like $60K today to pay off in the next 10 years….maybe more, assuming the 2009 4.5% 20 yr ARM has way too low interest rates now. I pity those on 20-30 yr ARMs right now. The money I saved bought me a new foreclosed property which is also listing about $30-50K higher than when I bought it in 2014.

    I agree with Erik, making money just requires a good plan….the main thing, ignore the financial advisors, realtors and sellers….just use common sense instead.

  12. 12
    Deerhawke says:

    In my neighborhood of Wallingford/Greenlake, I am noticing somewhat more listings but the sales seem more compressed in price. The bottom continues to rise but the top has stopped rising… or so it seems.

  13. 13

    RE: Deerhawke @ 12 – Maybe rich people don’t want to move to a city where they are vilified and threatened with additional taxation.

  14. 14
    David says:

    I still feel an ominous cloud of Amazon/Bezos setting up to hammer Seattle. I sure it isn’t true until I sell my properties.

    Bezos is spending a lot of time in Texas. Here he is getting a lot of respect at SMU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHRQUO70KyM

    Why would he want to stay in Seattle where screaming banshees (Seattleites) threaten him with criminal prosecution. In numerous interviews, he has repeatedly referred to his Amazon stock as “lottery winnings”. Obviously he sees his success as a lucky thing – BUT in reality I think what he means is those lucky enough to have Amazon should understand how lucky they are. Seattle does not. I think Amazon leaves this town.

  15. 15
    Blake says:

    The US Treasury yield curve is slowly headed towards inversion (10Y-2Y slope declines below 0 basis points)
    https://confoundedinterest.net/2018/07/03/us-treasury-slope-flattens-to-30-bps-break-on-through-to-inversion/

    Any week now… look out!!

  16. 16
    Blake says:

    btw: “A negative curve, where the return to investors on shorter-dated securities is above that on longer-term bonds, has predicted all nine U.S. recessions since 1955, with a lag of six to 24 months.”
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-05/fed-study-finds-inverted-yield-curve-still-good-recession-alert

  17. 17
    Brian says:

    By David @ 14:

    I still feel an ominous cloud of Amazon/Bezos setting up to hammer Seattle. I sure it isn’t true until I sell my properties.

    Bezos is spending a lot of time in Texas. Here he is getting a lot of respect at SMU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHRQUO70KyM

    Texas has lots of usable land to build affordable housing and good infrastructure that allows people to live further out. Affordable housing = lower cost of living = lower wages = lots of room for growth = more bucks in Bezos pockets. And we all know Bezos likes nothing more than that.

    Seattle employees cost too much for Bezo$ because they need expensive housing.

  18. 18

    RE: Blake @ 16 – Could the looming trade fight/tarrifs be affecting this? Uncertainty moving rates?

  19. 19
    Blurtman says:

    By Blake @ 16:

    btw: “A negative curve, where the return to investors on shorter-dated securities is above that on longer-term bonds, has predicted all nine U.S. recessions since 1955, with a lag of six to 24 months.”
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-05/fed-study-finds-inverted-yield-curve-still-good-recession-alert

    It’s predicted 15 of the last 10 recessions.

  20. 20
    pfft says:

    By matt @ 6:

    Everyone is trying to cash out

    straight cash homie.

    I have wu-tang financial handle my cash and diversify my bonds.

  21. 21
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 13:

    RE: Deerhawke @ 12 – Maybe rich people don’t want to move to a city where they are vilified and threatened with additional taxation.

    Amazon just got nearly a billion dollar tax break from the guy who wants to put kids into jail indefinitely with their parents…

    It must be such a burden to have so much money and have to pay a little extra in taxes. The dude practically runs sweatshops. did the government steal his kids? if not he’ll be ok.

  22. 22
    David says:

    pfft is an astro-turfing sock puppet

  23. 23
    pfft says:

    By Blurtman @ 19:

    By Blake @ 16:

    btw: “A negative curve, where the return to investors on shorter-dated securities is above that on longer-term bonds, has predicted all nine U.S. recessions since 1955, with a lag of six to 24 months.”
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-03-05/fed-study-finds-inverted-yield-curve-still-good-recession-alert

    It’s predicted 15 of the last 10 recessions.

    remember ECRI’s recession call? LOL?

  24. 24
    pfft says:

    By David @ 22:

    pfft is an astro-turfing sock puppet

    your act was better when your name was scotsman…

    tell us again how great Drumpf’s economy is going to be when his tariffs hit the economy? Trade wars are supposed to be easy to win? he doesn’t know anything about nothing.

    I bet he doesn’t even know what NATO stands for. 100% serious.

  25. 25
    pfft says:

    I think the RE market is going to start getting interesting. Don’t really want to live through another 2008 again…

  26. 26
    pfft says:

    The 90s were the last great decade by the way.

  27. 27
    Sam says:

    I see only 3260 active listings in king county currently with a simple search whereas Tims post shows 3700 active listings…..

  28. 28
    redmondjp says:

    By pfft @ 26:

    The 90s were the last great decade by the way.

    That’s unpossible! There were no smartphones in the 90s. Most young people today would rather die than live without one.

  29. 29
    Blurtman says:

    The Technivorm Moccamaster – oh yeah! Zooooooom!

    https://www.seattlecoffeegear.com/technivorm-moccamaster-coffee-brewer-kbg741

  30. 30
    David B. says:

    By softwarengineer @ 11:

    RE: Wile E. Millenial @ 10
    A Lot of the Old Seattle Bubble Folks Thought I Was Nuts Paying Off an $80+K principle in 1999 and not letting it turn into a 20 year 4.5% ARM in 2009

    This site existed in 1999?

  31. 31

    RE: Blurtman @ 28 – Damn those tech employees. Coming here and driving up the price of our coffee makers! /sarc

    But I have a way around being impacted by the inflow of high-income tech workers: Cold-brew.

  32. 32

    In case anyone else was wondering as I was, only about 125 of the additional new listings, YOY, for the May stats were due to new construction.

    Approximation from NWMLS sources, but not guaranteed.

  33. 33

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 13
    Yeah Kary

    But you’d be surprised….all I get is compliments on my “Drain the Swamp” and “Border Patrol” tee shirts in Kent. The possible open border folks that see me are silent when they see the Populist Symbols…but seem not to care much either. There’s a lot more Populist in Seattle than you would ever imagine, Hades, the recent North Dakota Trump Rally was 20% Democrats with red MAGA hats shouting “lock her up”….LOL

  34. 34
    whatsmyname says:

    Realtors, the June EOM active inventory for King County stood at 3714. The Estately hour-by-hour inventory shows 3251 at 10:00 AM, July 4.

    Were there 463 more sales than listings during the last 3 days, or is there some kind of glitch in the Estately numbers? Is there any predictability factor for that glitch? Thanks.

  35. 35

    RE: whatsmyname @ 32 – I’m not sure what you’re asking.
    As to the more sales than listings, keep in mind that’s reported when they’re reported to the NWMLS, so there’s sometimes a couple day delay, and we just passed a month end. That means a lot would tend to be reported right after the first. Also, some new listings may have been delayed due to the holiday.

    But if you’re looking at the change in inventory you should look at new listings and new pendings, not new solds. There were more new pendings in the past three days than new solds.

  36. 36
    whatsmyname says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 33
    I am trying to reconcile change in inventory (albeit as reported by two different sources).

    I access that kind of information here; I don’t have access to new listings and new pendings unless you or Tim are reporting on them. Is there a direct source I can use? I am not a realtor.

    Thanks.

  37. 37
    David B. says:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 31 – Yet some how a millionaire from New York City who inherited his wealth is a “populist”.

  38. 38

    RE: whatsmyname @ 34 – You can get some limited information here each month, after the NWMLS releases their monthly stats.

    http://www.northwestmls.com/index.cfm?/News–Information/page/Market-Statistics

    Nothing for ongoing that I’m aware of.

  39. 39

    RE: whatsmyname @ 32

    We all calculate things a bit differently. Since some townhomes in King County come up as single family homes and others come up as condos, I tend to exclude all townhomes. Right now there are 3,172 Active listings that are not condos, townhouses, mobile homes or houseboats. There are 337 townhomes.

    Snohomish gets a bit crazier because they call a lot of their newer single family detached homes on small lots “condominium” even when they aren’t.

    To keep an accurate read on the market, you have to choose what to include and exclude. I tend to count 3 bedroom + condos more than 2 bedroom houses.

    Required disclosure, stats are not compiled, verified or published by The Northwest Multiple Listing Service.

  40. 40
    whatsmyname says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 35RE: ARDELL DellaLoggia @ 36

    Thank you to both. This is good information.

  41. 41
    Scotsman says:

    What? Somebody call me?

    As soon as China, Canada, the E.U., etc realize that the best way to avoid U.S. tariffs on their exports it to drop their tariffs and restrictions on imported Amurican excellence our economy will take another leap up. Trump is winning, and will continue to do so despite the plethora of exploding liberal heads.

    Economics is in large part about expectations. And current positive expectations among consumers and businesses are at elevated levels. Yeah, some of the debt/unfunded liability issues are ugly, but positive expectations ensure the can gets kicked down the road for another several years. Worst case- growth slows but there’s no real collapse.

  42. 42
    Blurtman says:

    What it all means: “The individual health insurance market under the ACA is financially sustainable as subsidies rise to match premium increases,” Larry Levitt of the Kaiser Family Foundation tweeted. “However, the lack of affordable insurance for middle-class people ineligible for subsidies does not seem politically sustainable.”

    https://finance.yahoo.com/news/more-americans-paid-aca-plans-211154528.html

  43. 43

    RE: Blurtman @ 39 – Also from that article:

    At the same time, rising premiums are taking a toll, forcing many middle-income Americans — individuals making more than about $48,000 a year, or families of four making more than about $100,000 — to drop coverage. “Taken together, these reports show that state markets are increasingly failing to cover people who do not qualify for federal subsidies even as the Exchanges remain relatively stable,” CMS said.

    That’s what I’ve been saying for years. Obamacare has just shifted the uninsured from being people who can’t afford it to being people who make a decent living but are not wealthy (or just cheap). It’s effectively a huge tax on those individuals because they are in effect reducing the government subsidy that your quote referred to , and some just decide that they can no longer afford to pay for other peoples’ healthcare. And because Obamacare lets more and more sick people in each year those healthy people who remain insured are effectively paying for more and more irresponsible people who did not have insurance previously because they wanted to spend their money elsewhere until they became sick.

    As Bill Clinton said–it’s the craziest thing. Actually, I’d call it the stupidest thing.

  44. 44

    RE: Blurtman @ 39
    Trump Solved Obama Care Problems Too

    [Because of reduced foreign overpopulation invasion?] I hear Jack and the Box is currently offering Amazon/Boeing tier one pay with 40 hour weeks, flextime and healthcare [in writing]…hey Amazon doesn’t have flextime….LOL….burger flipping is now up-scaled. Jack and the Box allows bathroom breaks too…

  45. 45

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 40
    Meanwhile Europe and Asia Get Socialized Healthcare [With Free Housing Too]

    And they want to use America as their piggy bank to pay for it and pay hardly nothing for military defense.

  46. 46
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 40 – Basically, the Exchange is only stable because of government handout. For people who do not qualify, the decline in enrollment has been disastrous.

    Mike Kreidler thinks WA can’t afford Obamacare but criticizes the fed’s effort to rein in Obamacare. What a political hack.

    In Washington state, lawmakers were unsuccessful in their attempts to create a reinsurance program, said Mr. Kreidler, the regulator. “We ran into the same problem some other states did — it’s tough coming up with the money,” he said.

    Obamacare Is Proving Hard to Kill
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/03/health/obamacare-insurance-rates.html

  47. 47
    wreckingbull says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 40 – A dart thrown at a wall would have created a better set of policies. On the other hand, that’s sort of what we had, as told by Crazy “Pass it so we can find out what’s in it” Na-Na.

    I still think that forcing all federal employees, including congress, to buy plans on the exchange would have been one of the best things we could do to nudge it into improvement.

  48. 48
    wreckingbull says:

    RE: Eastsider @ 43

    “it’s tough coming up with the money”

    Mike needs to slow down and read what he said. Why is it tough coming up with the money? Think hard, Mike, I know you will get there.

    This quote could have also come from a middle class family who makes a bit too much for subsidies and struggles with high premiums and absurd deductibles.

  49. 49
    Matt P says:

    The comments devolve into political bs more quickly with each post. Wish we could stick to housing.

  50. 50
    Blake says:

    By Matt P @ 46:

    The comments devolve into political bs more quickly with each post. Wish we could stick to housing.

    Agree… it’s sad…

  51. 51
    ronp says:

    I enjoy the political back and forth a bit, but yes, we could use a moderator to keep the focus more on housing/real estate!

  52. 52

    RE: ronp @ 48 – Part of the reason Tim has had so few new posts recently is there really isn’t a lot to say about real estate that’s new. Currently we have increased inventory, which is different than the decreased inventory of the past three years. How much can be said about that? But I’ll try something new with my next post–give me a few minutes.

  53. 53

    Okay, real estate topic–Sellers going with an offer where the buyer doesn’t have an inspection contingency. I’ve come up with a new way to explain it.

    Offhand, without knowing anything, no inspection sounds good looking at it from the seller’s side. The buyer won’t be asking for any credits or repairs. The buyer won’t back out based on a whim. It’s easier and much less stressful (which is probably why some listing agents prefer it).

    Cases like Douglas v. Visser ( https://caselaw.findlaw.com/wa-court-of-appeals/1624461.html ) where the seller covered up conditions so bad the house had to be torn down, well those just don’t sink in. People don’t get it. So how about this for explaining what is at stake?

    You don’t know anything about your buyer. For all you know they are a nut, or know a nut. When do you want them to come to the erroneous conclusion that the house you’re selling needs a new roof and new siding? Before or after closing? If before closing they can make that request as part of a buyer inspection response, and you can say: “No!” After closing they can do whatever they want with the house, removing any evidence of what condition the roof and siding were in, and install whatever they want using whatever process they want. Then, after you’re sued you’re going to have no evidence of what the house was like, other than your own verbal testimony. And you’re going to have to argue that even if those items did need to be replaced, that the product or process was more expensive than necessary. Oh, and while that is dragging on a few years, you’re going to have to be paying your attorney tens of thousands of dollars, and if you lose you’ll probably have to pay the buyer’s attorney.

    So which should you do? The answer will vary for each person, depending on how risk averse they are. Personally I don’t think you can underestimate how stressful it is to be involved in litigation. So I favor allowing a buyer to do an inspection, even though waiting on the buyer’s inspection response can be stressful, and even though there is some chance their response will be infuriating. Sure the odds of that are much higher than the odds of litigation, but litigation is much worse and much longer.

  54. 54
    wreckingbull says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 49 – In my opinion, we never have enough home improvement discussion here. That may also annoy those who prefer a heavily-policed comment section, but there is always plenty to learn from others past projects, whether disasters or successes.

    One of my biggest mistakes in restoring the homes I have lived in is too much focus on aesthetics. I built a covered porch using CVG fir and cedar, it’s great to look at but it faces SW and needs a full clean and re-stain every two years. My next home will have a covered paver patio. No more decks or porches for me.

  55. 55
    pfft says:

    By wreckingbull @ 44:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 40 – A dart thrown at a wall would have created a better set of policies. On the other hand, that’s sort of what we had, as told by Crazy “Pass it so we can find out what’s in it” Na-Na.

    I still think that forcing all federal employees, including congress, to buy plans on the exchange would have been one of the best things we could do to nudge it into improvement.

    LOL. you guys don’t know anything about the ACA. Plus you take things out of context. They worked on the ACA for a year and held dozens of hearings.

    Congress does have to buy plans from the exchange.

    Obamacare works. it’s not perfect but it’s saved tens of thousands of lives. Most of you probably don’t have a better plan. All you guys do, whether it is obamacare or plans to help the homeless is complain. I had to actually pry a homeless plan out of you guys. Did you guys know that the number of homeless kids going to school has gone up from 1200 to 4000? Guess what, with the repeal of the tax that number is probably going to go up. there will probably be no big plan to help the homeless since the city council chickened out.

    all those homeless children isn’t going to be a good look for the city nor is it going to be good for the kids. I don’t think some of you care though. At least not enough to do anything about it. If I am wrong post away.

  56. 56
    pfft says:

    By ronp @ 48:

    I enjoy the political back and forth a bit, but yes, we could use a moderator to keep the focus more on housing/real estate!

    the only answer I can give you is that medical bills are a leading cause of foreclosures and bankruptcy.

  57. 57
    pedaltothemetal says:

    RE: Scotsman @ 38

    Scotsman, you might want to reconsider your “expectations” theory.
    Maybe go for a little history lesson. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dot-com_bubble

    High expectations are generally correlated with the end of a cycle.

    It’s when people do stupid things such as:
    Comcast & Disney bids for Fox
    Zillow getting into flipping houses
    Bezos planting a fictional representation of his balls in the middle of city.

    Or more topical, taking on massive debt to buy a house at inflated prices because those moss pits will just keep going up right!!

    If you’re buying a house now, make sure your Bezos ball shining skills are on point! and keep up with the ball shining tech! Don’t lose out to cheaper ball shiners. Try to value add your ball shining skills. It will be a long time before that moss pit is paid off and you might need to ball shine 24/7 7 days a week to keep up. Oh what fun it will be!

  58. 58

    The June stats are out, and while the active listings are up considerably, it’s not due to new listings. YOY new listings were fairly stable, with all or virtually all of the increase being due to the increase in new construction listings.

    A reduction in pendings makes up for roughly a third of the increase in listings. Sales were only slightly down YOY, but more than I expected. Seemingly there weren’t many late reported sales from the prior month as typical. Maybe the NWMLS is cracking down on that???? Keep in mind that in a 30 day period a listing could have gone from active to sold, so you need to look at both pendings and solds.

    I’m not really sure how to account for the rest of the increase. It doesn’t seem to be more time on the market, which is what I would have guessed from the other numbers. I’ll have to think about it further, but if anyone has any suggestions.

    Vague references to numbers from NWMLS sources, but not compiled by or guaranteed by the NWMLS.

    Finally, I almost forgot to look at prices–mean and median up considerably YOY.

  59. 59
    pedaltothemetal says:

    RE: pedaltothemetal @ 54

    I mentioned a few of the stupid end cycle moves.

    On the other side you have Buffet with around 70B in cash/cash equivalents.
    Buffet would surely be a buyer of Seattle housing right now right? hahaha

  60. 60
    David says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 55 – So just agreat Summer market but not frenzied.

    BTW, if you are renovating a property, Floor & Decor just opened at Southcenter Mall. I know this place from out East. Hog Heaven for reflooring options – category killer store.

    https://www.flooranddecor.com/

  61. 61
    David says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 55 – So just great Summer market but not frenzied.

    BTW, if you are renovating a house and need a flooring option, a new category killer store just opened next to Southcenter Mall. I’m familiar with it from out East.

  62. 62
    pedaltothemetal says:

    Here’s a good diversified portfolio for you:

    1 – Seattle house, purchased with debt, purchased late in the cycle.
    0 – Anything else.

    Good luck out there!

  63. 63
    David says:

    RE: pedaltothemetal @ 58 – This assumes the house is being bought as an investment instead of a place to live.

    If you live in the house 40 years, then it is a terrible investment unless you sell it.

  64. 64
    pedaltothemetal says:

    The future promises lower returns, the higher the price in the present.

    Now go get that house!

  65. 65
    Jon B says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 50

    Kary, you cite a case where “the seller covered up conditions so bad the house had to be torn down”. I didn’t read the case but I have to assume it was proven the seller knowingly covered up major, major issues. Why would such a case apply to a person selling who isn’t actively covering anything up? Yes of course anyone can sue, but people tend not to do that if there is no hope of success. If a seller can not be proven to have knowingly deceived, in what situation would a court rule against them?

  66. 66

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 50

    “… the seller covered up conditions so bad the house had to be torn down…”

    That’s not a “real estate topic”. That’s a Halloween campfire story. Let’s stick within the realm of every day realities.

  67. 67

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 55

    “Seemingly there weren’t many late reported sales from the prior month as typical. Maybe the NWMLS is cracking down on that????”

    More likely the buyers are causing that crack down by noticing if the house they just bought is still showing as Pending. I have had buyers remark about that in just a few hours after closing. Same with Active to Pending. People are watching for the status change alert on their phones and speaking up when not timely. I think the agent only has 24 hours (maybe 48 or end of next business day) to make the status change. I did have to remind the agent on my last closing, but she also didn’t pick up her lockbox yet.

    I think the market is policing itself better for the most part.

  68. 68

    By ARDELL DellaLoggia @ 61:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 50

    “… the seller covered up conditions so bad the house had to be torn down…”

    That’s not a “real estate topic”. That’s a Halloween campfire story. Let’s stick within the realm of every day realities.

    Those are the facts of the case! And the interesting thing was the seller was a real estate agent! Usually courts hammer professionals, but this time the doctrine was strong enough to overcome that bias.

    But I guess your comment proves the point I made about the case–those facts just don’t sink in for agents or sellers.

    So that you can read the facts: https://caselaw.findlaw.com/wa-court-of-appeals/1624461.html

    The trial court found that the Vissers discovered significant wood rot to the sill plate and rim joist, as well as to the floor joists. It determined that, instead of correcting the defects, the Vissers made superficial repairs and concealed the damage. It ruled in favor of the Douglases on all claims. The court awarded the Douglases $103,000 to tear down and rebuild the house, $3,000 to cover the cost of inspections, $1,500 in moving expenses, $12,000 for emotional distress, and $25,000 as treble damages pursuant to the Consumer Protection Act. It also awarded the Douglases their fees and costs in the amount of $49,838.

    That award was reversed on appeal. The buyers lost on those facts!

  69. 69
    wreckingbull says:

    RE: pfft @ 52 – Since I started buying plans on the exchange in 2014, there has been a double digit premium increase EVERY year – last year was nearly 30%. Since I started buying plans on the exchange in 2014, the number of insurers participating has gone down from six to only one – only a crappy HMO is left.

    I know you usually have a low bar for success, pfft, but I think even your own dogmatic tribe is starting to see the failure and admit we have a big problem on our hands. And yes, you are correct that this is related to real estate. When a family pays $1600/month for a weak silver plan, there is not much left over for mortgage payments, insurance, and taxes.

  70. 70

    By wreckingbull @ 64:

    RE: pfft @ 52 – Since I started buying plans on the exchange in 2014, there has been a double digit premium increase EVERY year – last year was nearly 30%. Since I started buying plans on the exchange in 2014, the number of insurers participating has gone down from six to only one – only a crappy HMO is left.

    You must not be in King County, because there is more selection here still. But I think it was Regence which did pull out. If I had stayed with a traditional insurer rather than switching to an HMO my increase would have been around 50% ($500 something to $800 something).

  71. 71

    By pfft @ 53:

    By ronp @ 48:

    I enjoy the political back and forth a bit, but yes, we could use a moderator to keep the focus more on housing/real estate!

    the only answer I can give you is that medical bills are a leading cause of foreclosures and bankruptcy.

    And that’s because our system of insurance has pushed prices up for decades, meaning if you don’t have insurance you can’t afford medical care. Obamacare did nothing to fix that–it just added more insurance into the system. Gasoline on the fire! The one thing it did do to help was it created more people with high deductibles. That would still leave them with medical bills, but not enough for most people to file bankruptcy unless the condition results in bills over multiple years.

  72. 72

    The Times is reporting that properties are staying on the market longer, but that’s based largely on broker quotes in the NWMLS press release. The stats don’t show that, at least for King County SFR.

    For Actives the average time on the market is 10 days shorter YOY (12 YTD).
    For Pendings, one day longer YOY (3 shorter YTD).
    For Solds, one day longer YOY (4 shorter YTD).

    Sure two of those three are a day longer YOY, but that’s not a significant difference, and could even be rounding. But it’s clearly not true of the Actives, which is what they’re discussing.

    Numbers from NWMLS sources, but not guaranteed.

  73. 73
    Eastsider says:

    By wreckingbull @ 64:

    When a family pays $1600/month for a weak silver plan, there is not much left over for mortgage payments, insurance, and taxes.

    $20k yearly premium for a family health plan plus 10s of thousands in deductible. It cannot possibly work when median household income is $80k (or $60k median US household). This is why Obamacare must fail.

  74. 74

    RE: wreckingbull @ 51
    So True

    Wood patios and decks look nice….but rot away in about 10-20 years with all our rain and painting ’em all the time is too much maintenance for me too. The hotels use slightly slanted [for drainage] cement decks and such….they know about wood rot too.

    Businesses prefer metal roofs and cement walls and we get low quality glue board slapped together with nails….LOL

  75. 75

    RE: Eastsider @ 68
    Health Insurance= Net Pay?

    Pension funds eliminated for Boeing engineers years ago…..no one retires now? Or has anyone paying in to their fund. Their 401Ks are only 5 digits big with puny interest, etc, etc….

    https://www.lmtonline.com/business/article/A-record-number-of-folks-age-85-and-older-are-13051373.php

    Time to pull that lazy 85 year old frame out of the retirement easy chair and start flipping burgers like the rest of us mainly do now? LOL

  76. 76
    Sid says:

    What’s going on here: https://www.redfin.com/WA/Bellevue/10210-SE-16th-St-98004/home/253636

    Same price as it was sold in 2014 ???

  77. 77
    Dustin says:

    RE: Sid @ 71 – I’ve noticed there has been an increasing amount of coverage in national and international media regarding the decline of the market for high end luxury real estate over the last few years. It could be a good sign of things to come, but I think it will take a long time for declines on the high end to filter down into lower end markets, and wealthier people will benefit from the trend long before the middle class or poor.

  78. 78
    Blake says:

    A healthy market…?
    Companies buying back their own shares is the only thing keeping the stock market afloat right now
    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/02/corporate-buybacks-are-the-only-thing-keeping-the-stock-market-afloat.html?recirc=taboolainternal
    . Companies set a record for share buybacks in the second quarter, while investors set their own record for selling stock-based funds in June.

    . On the corporate side, officials are finding that repurchases are the best use for investor cash now, while individual investors are fearful that a trade war could offset strong economic momentum this year.

    . All in all, the corporate buying has won out, keeping the S&P 500 slightly positive for the year.

  79. 79

    RE: Blake @ 73 – If you think about it, buybacks are an alternative to dividends (assuming they are not based on new lending), so it allows the shareholder to decide whether to have a tax consequence.

    Or stated differently, increasing dividends would also drive the market higher too. I’m not seeing buybacks being an issue if they are earnings driven.

  80. 80
    N says:

    Market shift? Big spike in Seattle-area homes for sale slows price growth

    https://www.seattletimes.com/business/real-estate/market-shift-big-spike-in-seattle-area-homes-for-sale-slows-price-growth/

    This is supposed to be the hottest time of year for the market — it’s the first time prices cooled from May to June since before the recession.

    Just a few months ago, said Booth, she’d been getting as many as 100 people at open houses, but her latest listing, in Magnolia, attracted 15 open-house visitors and has been on the market for two weeks. Homes across the region had been selling in one week, on average.

    Jessie Culbert, a Seattle Redfin agent, said her four most recent sales all attracted just one bidder each, and each time, the offer came in after the one-week deadline that has become standard in today’s fast-moving market.

    Inventory doubled from a year ago in Ballard/Green Lake/Greenwood, Renton-Benson Hill and Sodo/Beacon Hill. The number of homes on the market surged more than 75 percent in Lake Forest Park/Kenmore, Skyway and Renton-Highlands. In downtown Seattle, a condo-only market, inventory nearly tripled. Only the Federal Way and Richmond Beach-Shoreline areas had a drop in homes on the market.

  81. 81
    pfft says:

    By wreckingbull @ 64:

    RE: pfft @ 52 – Since I started buying plans on the exchange in 2014, there has been a double digit premium increase EVERY year – last year was nearly 30%. Since I started buying plans on the exchange in 2014, the number of insurers participating has gone down from six to only one – only a crappy HMO is left.

    I know you usually have a low bar for success, pfft, but I think even your own dogmatic tribe is starting to see the failure and admit we have a big problem on our hands. And yes, you are correct that this is related to real estate. When a family pays $1600/month for a weak silver plan, there is not much left over for mortgage payments, insurance, and taxes.

    don’t talk to me. talk to trump. he is the one trying to do all he can to sabotage it.

    “I know you usually have a low bar for success, pfft, but I think even your own dogmatic tribe is starting to see the failure and admit we have a big problem on our hands.”

    nope. savings healthcare is emerging as a big issue. people don’t want their healthcare taken away and republicans are in trouble all over the nation. it’s the #1 issue.

    Not my circus, not my clowns.

  82. 82
    pfft says:

    LOL. Thank god they got tax cuts.

    Hamptons homeowners are transforming their pool cabanas, once utilitarian structures, into luxury homes unto themselves — complete with multiple bedrooms and bathrooms and impressive standalone amenities.

    Pool houses in the Hamptons are getting super fancy
    https://nypost.com/2018/07/02/pool-houses-in-the-hamptons-are-getting-super-fancy/

  83. 83
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 66:

    By pfft @ 53:

    By ronp @ 48:

    I enjoy the political back and forth a bit, but yes, we could use a moderator to keep the focus more on housing/real estate!

    the only answer I can give you is that medical bills are a leading cause of foreclosures and bankruptcy.

    And that’s because our system of insurance has pushed prices up for decades, meaning if you don’t have insurance you can’t afford medical care. Obamacare did nothing to fix that–it just added more insurance into the system. Gasoline on the fire!

    prove it!

    aren’t you for high deductibles? weren’t you just saying I was a complete idiot for wanting no deductibles but now you are complaining about high deductibles?

    you know why you are arguing out of both sides of your mouth? you either hate obamacare so much you can’t provide a dispassionate thought on the subject or you don’t know anything about healthcare. or you will say the opposite of whatever I say.

    Obamacare has saved perhaps tens of thousands of lives. people are in their homes because of the ACA. we don’t talk enough about people here when we talk about policy.

  84. 84

    RE: N @ 75 – Too bad the anecdotal evidence isn’t consistent with the stats. Although having more inventory would lead to fewer people at open houses, and even fewer multiple offers (or fewer offers when there are multiple offers), that sort of thing can also happen when an agent gets ahead of the market on price.

    Still looking for some explanations of what’s going on given the numbers I posted above.

  85. 85

    I still think it’s a month or two too early to be doing this type of analysis, but for June 2017 the mean and median selling price were both about $30,000 over list, while this year they were about $20,000 over list. That would tend to indicate either fewer or less intense bidding wars.

    And while the number of sales was down slightly, the sales prices were up significantly. So rather than inventory constraining sales maybe it’s now more price.

    Numbers from NWMLS sources but not compiled by or guaranteed by the NWMLS. Numbers for King County SFR.

  86. 86
    pedaltothemetal says:

    It’s inflation baby!
    Fed has got to keep cranking that wheel.
    Still feeling the FOMO on terrible schools, terrible roads, terrible traffic, a house without a sidewalk?
    Well then buy that house from your local baby boomer. They could really use the cash right about now.

    Why not do a baby boomer a favor? They’ve given you massive debt and no hope of ss. Do them one last solid and pony up that top $ for their moss pit. They likely bought the house on substitute teachers salary. Now you get to shine those Bezos balls day and night. Do it!!!!

  87. 87
    Brian says:

    RE: pedaltothemetal @ 81
    “moss pit” lol.

  88. 88
  89. 89
    pfft says:

    By pedaltothemetal @ 81:

    It’s inflation baby!
    Fed has got to keep cranking that wheel.
    Still feeling the FOMO on terrible schools, terrible roads, terrible traffic, a house without a sidewalk?
    Well then buy that house from your local baby boomer. They could really use the cash right about now.

    Why not do a baby boomer a favor? They’ve given you massive debt and no hope of ss. Do them one last solid and pony up that top $ for their moss pit. They likely bought the house on substitute teachers salary. Now you get to shine those Bezos balls day and night. Do it!!!!

    nice sidewalk reference.

    CPI inflation is well under control. Housing costs aren’t…I read 20,000 people per year are moving to SEA. many for 6 figure jobs. not much the fed can do about that. stop ordering from amazon? buy gold off of amazon? I bought my meager haul of gold and silver when it wasn’t cool.

  90. 90
    pfft says:

    Honestly if I could free up some cash(sell a yacht or 3rd home) I’d buy a Hong Kong parking space just for the hell of it just like I was going to do with bitcoin…

    A Single Parking Space in Hong Kong Has Sold for $765,000
    https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/a-single-parking-space-in-hong-kong-has-sold-for-24765000/ar-AAzDPpx

    I had too much caffeine today.

    EDIT:

    Quick! Someone recommend a parking spot REIT for me.

  91. 91
    Justme says:

    RE: pfft @ 84

    >>I read 20,000 people per year are moving to SEA.

    It appears that pfft has completely missed the recent reports of massive overbuilding and empty apartments in Seattle. The reference on high building rates and oversupply has been posted before, but here it is again.

    https://wolfstreet.com/2018/01/09/seattle-apartment-market-rents-hit-by-new-supply

  92. 92
    pfft says:

    By Justme @ 86:

    RE: pfft @ 84

    >>I read 20,000 people per year are moving to SEA.

    It appears that pfft has completely missed the recent reports of massive overbuilding and empty apartments in Seattle. The reference on high building rates and oversupply has been posted before, but here it is again.

    https://wolfstreet.com/2018/01/09/seattle-apartment-market-rents-hit-by-new-supply

    I don’t care about apartments. people who move here and get good jobs will buy homes. isn’t SFH inventory really low?

    why is the market going up? more buyers than sellers. I have no doubt there might be an oversupply of apartments. builders were no doubt scared by the housing collapse and built apartments instead of SFH.

  93. 93
    Nicole says:

    RE: pedaltothemetal @ 81
    you’re my favorite person on here

  94. 94
    Kelly says:

    By Nicole @ 88:

    RE: pedaltothemetal @ 81
    you’re my favorite person on here

    My thought exactly :)

  95. 95
    David says:

    RE: pedaltothemetal @ 81 – I don’t know why you get ginned up over a sidewalk. Not sure about King County, but in some places, the property owner has been made responsible for the sidewalks in front of their house even though the city or county built the sidewalk decades ago. That means people have an unfettered right to walk across something you are legally liable for. They trip – they sue you (not the city).

    The last house I sold, the city made homeowners responsible for building a 15-foot wide path in order to get approved for any building permits. Guess how many sidewalks I saw being built during my ownership time? ZERO.

  96. 96
    ohd1122 says:

    Anecdotes from the small corner I am watching (northwest Kent/SeaTac/Des Moines).

    Many units are staying on the market longer…two townhomes I was watching went 30-45 days on when just two weeks prior similar priced homes were being snatched up within a week. Condos are being listed at 5-10% less than what they were listed/sold for a few months ago. One new construction in Des Moines went pending just shy of 60 days on market (price reduced 10% over that period). These are interesting anecdotes but I don’t know if enough to establish a trend. Some really good SFH units in desirable locations are still going quick, so it may be that buyers are just being more discerning. Could be interest rates having a larger impact on a fringe area, could be the individual units (I believe one of the complexes is in quite a stormy HOA/builder lawsuit over flooding issues).

  97. 97
    Blurtman says:

    I left my shoes, in San Francisco,…..

    San Francisco Logs Over 16,000 Feces Complaints in One Week

    Golden Gate City becoming a shithole

    Over 16,000 complaints have been logged with the City of San Francisco regarding ‘feces’ in the last seven days.

    A website and related app that allows local residents to request maintenance or non-emergency services from the city has received 16,015 complaints with the keyword ‘feces’ in the last week at the time of this writing, and many pertain to human waste in public places.

    Additionally, words and phrases synonymous with ‘feces’ are found in thousands more grievances.

    Many of the complaints also connect the fecal matter to vagrants and homeless encampments – a sight all too common now across California.

    Users can geotag the location in question, and also provide photos to support their claim.

    “Homeless encampment is blocking sidewalk and creates a health hazard w trash and feces,” writes one user. “Please move them, and send a cleaning crew. Sidewalk is impassable, forcing pedestrians into the street.”

    “Homeless individuals sleeping along Funston between Clement and Geary,” writes another user. 
“Observed homeless people shooting up at 5pm on Monday, July 2nd. Lots of feces and garbage in the area. Please clean up area and see if homeless individuals need services.”

    A local Fox affiliate reported earlier this week about a “big bag of poo” filled with approximately 20 pounds of feces discarded on a San Francisco sidewalk.

    Residents filed multiple complaints with the city about the debris, and it was eventually removed.

    “Strong smell of feces on post on block between cedar and post,” wrote one denizen. “There must be a ton of it somewhere nearby.”

    “We don’t know what it’s from and we’re not going to test it,” said a Department of Public Works spokeswoman. “We just got rid of it. This is very unusual.”

    In April, the International Union of Operating Engineers filed a complaint with the California Department of Transportation on behalf of Caltrans workers, alleging that their safety was being jeopardized due to a variety of factors, including human waste produced by vagrants living near freeways and associated property.

    “Feces and urine and feminine products and all kinds of things on the ground; needles, syringes – you know they use buckets, five-gallon buckets for toilets, and it gets really disgusting,” said Steve Crouch, Director of Public Employees.

    https://newswars.com/san-francisco-logs-over-16000-feces-complaints-in-one-week

  98. 98
    wreckingbull says:

    RE: Blurtman @ 92 – Hep-a-titis, the San Francisco Treat! 🎜 🎝

  99. 99

    By ohd1122 @ 91:

    Anecdotes from the small corner I am watching (northwest Kent/SeaTac/Des Moines).These are interesting anecdotes but I don’t know if enough to establish a trend.

    Correct–not enough to establish a trend. For individual listings there can be condition or access issues that make the listing less likely to sell. Or what I described lately as some listing agents getting a bit power hungry and trying to set up terms which are not that good for buyers, resulting in the buyers going elsewhere. I mentioned one about a month ago where it appeared the agent was more interested in being able to grab the buyer’s earnest money than actually selling the house!

  100. 100

    RE: Blurtman @ 92 – That’s really sad. On that topic I remember Seattle for a time had those automated public toilets that cost a fortune. I wonder how many Port-a-potties they could have rented for that same amount of money, and for how long. It’s not like there are not companies that do that sort of thing.

    But beyond that, if you want to have policies which allow homeless people to live in an area, how much thinking does it take to realize that they need garbage and bathroom facilities? Bringing people in to clean up a hillside after it’s been ___________ by a homeless encampment cannot possibly be cheaper than providing those facilities in the first place (not that some cleanup would likely be necessary in any event–but it would be less). And the health impacts are significant, which is why there were actually rules against urban camping in the first place.

  101. 101
    wreckingbull says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 95 – You can’t do anything with a closed door. It just invites a worse situation.

    In all seriousness, the answer is 18-inch-wide concrete-lined open pit latrine, with a timed flush w/ highly-chlorinated water. At least the fecal matter gets into the sewage treatment system. Put these all over the city. It might not look or smell nice, but it beats Hep-A and your liver dropping out. This is a new reality of west coast urban areas.

    I forgot to mention: SF already has the right idea, they just need to extend the concept:

    https://www.gq.com/story/san-francisco-public-urinal

  102. 102

    RE: wreckingbull @ 96 – What a half-ass job! Very third-world, except that it would probably be done better in a third world country. A bit more shielding from view and an understanding that people do more than just urinate would be nice!

    https://www.gq.com/story/san-francisco-public-urinal

  103. 103

    RE: N @ 75
    Fear of High Mortgage Interest Rates for 2019 Slowed Open Houses?

    Has subsided a bit but the 3rd and 4th qtrs of 2018 still haven’t happened yet, so we’ll know a lot more by year’s end…

    I’m neutral on this subject and I’m a debt free saver BTW….high interest rates bankrupt the government while helping the cash savers.

  104. 104
    whatsmyname says:

    By Justme @ 86:

    https://wolfstreet.com/2018/01/09/seattle-apartment-market-rents-hit-by-new-supply

    That is a very excellent article from January. But look at what the bubble propagandists at KUOW put out just the day before yesterday:

    http://kuow.org/post/seattle-area-housing-prices-are-rising-5-hour-every-hour-every-day

  105. 105

    RE: whatsmyname @ 99
    Yes…

    The pigheads don’t believe it if it doesn’t agree with their investments…LOL

  106. 106
    wreckingbull says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 97 – “Shielding from view” was a reasonable feature a decade ago. We are way past that. Today, its preventing health emergencies like that experienced in San Diego. 600 seriously sick and 20 dead since the start of this year.

    And when I say ‘extend’ I mean extend as in #2.

  107. 107

    RE: pfft @ 76
    I Know When Obama Was in Power

    Then you blamed all the Obama problems on Bush….you open border pundits refuse to admit that you are the problem we are trying to fix…

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/patrickgleason/2018/07/06/millionaires-flee-california-after-tax-hike/2/

    We simply don’t like your open border tax hikes…the rich and middle class experienced leave California with red MAGA hats on….LOL

  108. 108

    Hades, SF Smells like Feces and the Streets are Littered With Needles and Homeless Service Workers

    The hotels and restaurants report lost 2018 travel income because of the HORRIFYING stench, toxic wastes and illegal alien crime…

    For the top 1% incomes in America to destroy worse and make slavery [the Real Fascist Confederates Today?] legal again….

    Seattle close behind?

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/06/san-francisco-house-prices-grew-fastest-ever-in-the-first-half-of-2018.html

  109. 109

    And Where Are All the California Millionaires Going to?

    I hear Kansas is attracting Latinos in droves, less unemployment than Seattle and more jobs now too.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2018/07/hello-full-employment/564527/?utm_source=pocket&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=pockethits

    High taxes are driving them to Trump states where ya don’t pay for “Confederate Style” slavery so much…jobs galore…

  110. 110
    whatsmyname says:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 103 – Your news article indicates that with the tech market still roaring, prices can be double what they currently are in Seattle – with no problem. Are you sure this is not bubble propaganda? Perhaps feces and needles in the street is a feature, not a bug?

  111. 111
    David says:

    I’d be curious to know if Amazon people are still buying houses. If not – then we know the growth game is going to tank for a few years. At least.

  112. 112
    pedaltothemetal says:

    Amazon folks are starting to get it. Buying a moss pit in Seattle turns their F*** You money, into Ball Shining money. A good deal if your into ball shining.

  113. 113
    David says:

    If the Seattle market does go into a recession – we can thank the Seattle City Council for killing the golden goose. Let’s hope their next trip to the woods finds Big Foot f_sting them.

  114. 114
    pedaltothemetal says:

    This dude seems to have been spot on in 2014:

    https://www.cnbc.com/2014/12/31/dont-worry-about-the-us-economyuntil-2018-economist.html

    “I’m worried about 2018. I think by that time everything will all come due. We’ll have wage inflation. The Fed will have to tighten hard”

    It’s the end of the cycle as we know it.

  115. 115
    pedaltothemetal says:

    The difference between a $500,000 house and a $800,000 house is 10 additional years of ball shining assuming you save $30,000 of your ball shining wages a year.

    Enjoy!!

  116. 116
    whatsmyname says:

    By pedaltothemetal @ 110:

    The difference between a $500,000 house and a $800,000 house is 10 additional years of ball shining assuming you save $30,000 of your ball shining wages a year.

    – So your recommendation would be to buy in the south end?

  117. 117
    Justme says:

    RE: Kelly @ 89
    RE: Nicole @ 88

    Man am I disappointed. Here I try to be a fact-based counterweight to all the bubble-mongering charlatans on this site, and pedaltothemetal ends up getting ALL the chicks based on being so much more funny than I am. No fair. I’m going to invent an alter-ego account and start jumping on Bosu-balls at the gym until I can get some (at least verbal) action around here.

    And The Tim needs some love, too. Look how he is escaping from this drudgery into a parallel universe at least once a week. It can’t be just coincidence.

  118. 118
    Notme says:

    By David @ 108:

    If the Seattle market does go into a recession – we can thank the Seattle City Council for killing the golden goose. Let’s hope their next trip to the woods finds Big Foot f_sting them.

    YES!!!!! Clearly a $275/year headcount tax will eliminate many minimum-wage jobs, and that will greatly impact the market demand for $800k houses. Everyone knows that.

  119. 119
    pedaltothemetal says:

    Funny how the poor and ultra rich know what a house is for, living in. Think Bezos, Gates give a s*** about their house equity. Let dwindling middle class trade the moss pits. Very comical.

  120. 120
    whatsmyname says:

    I just can’t get over this KUOW thing:
    http://kuow.org/post/seattle-area-housing-prices-are-rising-5-hour-every-hour-every-day

    “Housing prices in metropolitan Seattle are rising by more than $5 an hour, every hour of every day, according to the Puget Sound Regional Council.

    Prices keep going up because there’s a shortage of places to live. ”

    This is wrong on so many levels. First, they totally ignore all the housing in all the old and new apartments out there, not to mention encampments. Next, they want to work your house 24 hours a day 7 days a week – and for $5/hour. I can’t look at things this way. I made a deal with my house for an 8 hour day. This has the doubly beneficial effect of raising my home’s pay to a more humane $15/hour. Next year we’ll talk about weekends and holidays.

  121. 121

    RE: whatsmyname @ 120 – Encampments? They start near zero and then turn negative as the human waste and garbage start piling up. Or did you mean their negative impact on the value of surrounding properties?

    But yes, per hour does seem like an odd way to measure those things. I could see per year, per month or even per day, but the smaller the amount of time you use the less relevant and the less useful the information becomes.

  122. 122

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 99:

    By ohd1122 @ 91:

    Anecdotes from the small corner I am watching (northwest Kent/SeaTac/Des Moines).These are interesting anecdotes but I don’t know if enough to establish a trend.

    Correct–not enough to establish a trend. For individual listings there can be condition or access issues that make the listing less likely to sell. Or what I described lately as some listing agents getting a bit power hungry and trying to set up terms which are not that good for buyers, resulting in the buyers going elsewhere.

    I should have also mentioned unreasonable sellers, typically setting their price too high because that’s what they “need” or because they have a natural bias to think their house is better than every other house in the area, regardless of the facts. Or even negotiating poorly.

  123. 123
    whatsmyname says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 121 – I think there are people here who will point out that “shortage of places to live” might be a bit of an overreach when considering house prices only. The encampments comment is kind of a wink-wink regarding availability of places to live for less than SFR prices. There are a lot of new apartments which might or might not be absorbing to plan, but SFR’s are definitely becoming a smaller portion of the mix. Assuming stability in desire for ownership and non-shared walls, “shortage of houses to buy” might better reflect the scarcity factor which goes with the rising prices.

  124. 124
    Paulie says:

    By pedaltothemetal @ 119:

    Funny how the poor and ultra rich know what a house is for, living in. Think Bezos, Gates give a s*** about their house equity. Let dwindling middle class trade the moss pits. Very comical.

    You are a really unhelpful commenter. You can barely structure your thoughts into more than a couple of incohesive sentences. Your comments are charged with emotion instead of data and have very low credibility. Many of the commenters and lurkers, myself included, own multiple properties worth millions in the area, and have a high academic interest in understanding what may happen next in the market and why, so that we may continue to make good choices to grow our wealth.

    It is unclear what actionable recommendations or analysis you are trying to present. You flood the forums with a high volume of Trump-style tweet-length comments that provide very little insight, just blind anger and confusion. We get it, you hate Bezos, Trump, and billionaires. Now what? Complain anonymously on the internet while serious investors run circles around you?

    Maybe you can bundle them up into a couple of well-thought out comments instead of using the comment page as your personal Twitter to be pissed off at the wealthy.

  125. 125
    pedaltothemetal says:

    RE: Paulie @ 124

    Calm down Paulie. Have a cracker. Keep running those circles. You are a serious investor. Have another cracker.

  126. 126
    Luke says:

    RE: Paulie @ 124

    You assert authority because you own properties worth millions. I’m sure you’re very proud to own properties worth millions. Another way to look at your “home investments” is that you have taken a financial position with millions of dollars of leverage. Even with an income of a couple hundred thousand dollars a year, after taxes, expenses, and interest on your mortgages, that doesn’t leave you with much to save for a backstop given your millions in leverage. If you want to know what to do, please post your mortgage balance and your cash and cash equivalents. Then we can figure out how much exposure you have to a recession and/or downturn in the housing market.

  127. 127
    Notme says:

    RE: pedaltothemetal @ 125

    Haaaa. Polly have a cracker! Too funny.

  128. 128
    sfrz says:

    RE: Paulie @ 124 – what a pompous arse. This is Seattle Bubble. Not the millionaire’s club. Go sit with Bezo’s in his balls.

  129. 129
    sfrz says:

    RE: Notme @ 127 – bawk bawk… sittin’ here countin’ me money. Bawkkk….

  130. 130
    David says:

    Business in general has taken note of Seattle’s Venezuela-style thinking. It isn’t just Amazon. What smart business person would move to Seattle now?

    By Notme @ 118:

    By David @ 108:

    If the Seattle market does go into a recession – we can thank the Seattle City Council for killing the golden goose. Let’s hope their next trip to the woods finds Big Foot f_sting them.

    YES!!!!! Clearly a $275/year headcount tax will eliminate many minimum-wage jobs, and that will greatly impact the market demand for $800k houses. Everyone knows that.

  131. 131
    Blurtman says:

    By sfrz @ 128:

    RE: Paulie @ 124 – what a pompous arse. This is Seattle Bubble. Not the millionaire’s club. Go sit with Bezo’s in his balls.

    1:51

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0nfoP3bmd1c&t=48s

  132. 132
    Paulie says:

    By Luke @ 126:

    RE: Paulie @ 124

    You assert authority because you own properties worth millions. I’m sure you’re very proud to own properties worth millions. Another way to look at your “home investments” is that you have taken a financial position with millions of dollars of leverage. Even with an income of a couple hundred thousand dollars a year, after taxes, expenses, and interest on your mortgages, that doesn’t leave you with much to save for a backstop given your millions in leverage. If you want to know what to do, please post your mortgage balance and your cash and cash equivalents. Then we can figure out how much exposure you have to a recession and/or downturn in the housing market.

    No thanks. I’m a CPA and can handle my financial affairs. I prefer to interpret my fact own case, and I enjoy getting inputs on market conditions so to inform my decision-making, as everyone should.

    Will there be a recession? Yes. Will it negatively affect me? It will negatively affect almost everyone in some form. I am interested in holding long-term (20+ years) property rights and do not see property as a stock, so I have less interest in trying to time the market and the patience to withstand corrections, corrections which I expect to come in 1-3 years from now. I am properly leveraged, and thank you for your interest.

    The commenters provide really useful insights and analysis in addition to Tim’s articles. Ones like kary krismer and softwareengineer come to mind. I really appreciate the discussion in comments though I rarely participate myself. Some commenters add really low value commentary about Bezos’ balls or Obamacare and I wonder if they even have real property interests. Hey, it’s the internet, people can do whatever they want.

    I just bought an additional property, for $65K under list. It is essentially a tiny home, but it is neighbor to another property I own in Greenlake so I can merge the property lots into one larger 7,000 sq ft lot. The property was on the market for almost 30 days. The seller got greedy and listed way too high. I got greedy also, and bought it fully aware that this is likely towards the top of some cycle. People are not as punch-drunk on properties as they have been for the last 5 years.

    It is more likely that markets will stabilize and growth will slow, than that it will contract. The reality is that Seattle remains an excellent tech and commerce hub, and has the ingredients to become a world class city. If City Council would stop trying to turn local politics into a national movement for the homeless and focus on fixing potholes and prioritizing its taxpayers, that is. Local government is my largest concern. Otherwise, this part of the nation has a resilient ecology, remains virtually futureproof to global warming (drought and hurricanes namely, which will ravage Florida and California), has great weather and no bugs, a booming economy with lots of young, brilliant energetic professionals and several tech billionaires giving them jobs and problems to solve. If this is a bubble, it is made of an entirely different membrane and prices in Seattle will rise over decades to reflect what a truly valuable and special place it is. If you don’t believe it, invite some of your relatives from the flyover states to visit you in Seattle, and watch their eyes light up at how amazing it is. I just rented a property to some sweet tenants from Ohio who came here for a 6-month project 12 years ago…. all you have to do is look at how shitty the alternatives are to understand how special Seattle is and will continue to be.

    Local government is a long-term threat however, and in the short/mid-term, higher interest rates and new rental inventory will keep prices in check. Eventually recession will come as well. If you are looking for short-term gains, I would not advise buying in Seattle at this time.

  133. 133

    RE: Paulie @ 124
    Real Estate is Only Worth What the Selling Escrow Ink Dries and Documents

    No amount of guessing the future will change that fact.

  134. 134
    Paulie says:

    By softwarengineer @ 133:

    RE: Paulie @ 124
    Real Estate is Only Worth What the Selling Escrow Ink Dries and Documents

    No amount of guessing the future will change that fact.

    I may never sell the real estate in my lifetime. It’s worth can be based on its value to me personally, or future cash flows expected. I can’t say I agree with your statement but appreciate the perspective. If I was treating the house as a stock, then yes its ultimate selling price (less transaction/ opportunity/ financing/ development costs) is all that matters, but I am not.

    We live in a world of probabilities. Understanding possible and probable outcomes allows to exploit promising possibilities and mitigate the risks of bad things happening. I will have to make guesses like everyone else but with better inputs hopefully we will make better guesses. Even the best guess can go awry and that’s just a cost of doing business.

  135. 135
    pfft says:

    By David @ 111:

    I’d be curious to know if Amazon people are still buying houses. If not – then we know the growth game is going to tank for a few years. At least.

    how long till you can buy a house on amazon? talk about synergy. I am sure you can probably buy a tiny house on amazon.

  136. 136
    pfft says:

    By Notme @ 118:

    By David @ 108:

    If the Seattle market does go into a recession – we can thank the Seattle City Council for killing the golden goose. Let’s hope their next trip to the woods finds Big Foot f_sting them.

    YES!!!!! Clearly a $275/year headcount tax will eliminate many minimum-wage jobs, and that will greatly impact the market demand for $800k houses. Everyone knows that.

    for comparisons Amazon got a billion dollar Chump tax cut.

    Amazon Inc. Paid Zero in Federal Taxes in 2017, Gets $789 Million Windfall from New Tax Law
    https://itep.org/amazon-inc-paid-zero-in-federal-taxes-in-2017-gets-789-million-windfall-from-new-tax-law/

    the Seattle tax would have been a rounding error in their total tax bill.

    Take what you can
    Leave nothing behind

  137. 137
    pfft says:

    By Paulie @ 124:

    By pedaltothemetal @ 119:

    Funny how the poor and ultra rich know what a house is for, living in. Think Bezos, Gates give a s*** about their house equity. Let dwindling middle class trade the moss pits. Very comical.

    You are a really unhelpful commenter. You can barely structure your thoughts into more than a couple of incohesive sentences. Your comments are charged with emotion instead of data and have very low credibility. Many of the commenters and lurkers, myself included, own multiple properties worth millions in the area, and have a high academic interest in understanding what may happen next in the market and why, so that we may continue to make good choices to grow our wealth.

    It is unclear what actionable recommendations or analysis you are trying to present. You flood the forums with a high volume of Trump-style tweet-length comments that provide very little insight, just blind anger and confusion. We get it, you hate Bezos, Trump, and billionaires. Now what? Complain anonymously on the internet while serious investors run circles around you?

    Maybe you can bundle them up into a couple of well-thought out comments instead of using the comment page as your personal Twitter to be pissed off at the wealthy.

    my pool house is bigger than your house. Hell my pool is probably bigger than your house.

    As Scotsman would say…chill. go for a hike.

    I find pedals posts funny and thought provoking even if he is more cynical than me.

  138. 138
    pfft says:

    By David @ 130:

    Business in general has taken note of Seattle’s Venezuela-style thinking. It isn’t just Amazon. What smart business person would move to Seattle now?

    umm, someone who wants to make money? seattle is growing(the city council will get no credit for that though) this is where republicans freak out over a small public policy change and say the whole world is going to hell huh? they say that about EVERYTHING democrats do. where is your concern for the homeless by the way? I read over a hundred homeless people died last year in Seattle.

  139. 139
    David says:

    Has anyone seen an Amazon employee buying a house recently? They seem to have disappeared.

  140. 140
    Brian says:

    By Paulie @ 132:

    Hey, it’s the internet, people can do whatever they want.

    If it’s the internet and people can do whatever they want then why do you care what pedal posts?

  141. 141
    Eastsider says:

    By pfft @ 138:

    this is where republicans freak out over a small public policy change and say the whole world is going to hell huh?

    Where are those republicans anyway? Not very smart to play the republican card on your own kind. No wonder some have decided to #walkaway. LOL.

  142. 142
    pfft says:

    By Eastsider @ 141:

    By pfft @ 138:

    this is where republicans freak out over a small public policy change and say the whole world is going to hell huh?

    Where are those republicans anyway? Not very smart to play the republican card on your own kind. No wonder some have decided to #walkaway. LOL.

    Ha ha.

    For those not up to speed.

    The #WalkAway meme is what happens when everything is viral and nothing matter
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-intersect/wp/2018/07/02/the-walkaway-meme-is-what-happens-when-everything-is-viral-and-nothing-matters/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.171da9a4de8e

  143. 143

    Did Ya Bubbleheads Have a Nice 4th of July Vacation Week?

    Lots of good blogs and then there’s the real question? Can anyone guess where this new revolution will lead us? It has polarized America, but when you’re in the hibernation booth heading for Jupiter [2001 a Space Odyssey] and finally wake up; it takes time for the shock to go away. One thing’s for certain, its gonna have a surprise ending [just like 2010, the 2001 Arthur Clark followup movie] ;-)

    Have you gulped your mug of Yuban yet? LOL

    Get ready for the roller coaster ride from Hades…I see a Supreme Court storm ahead with plenty of Trump of victory dances/parties…the Open Border Party will be out in a rage to rattle cages?

  144. 144

    By pfft @ 136:

    Amazon Inc. Paid Zero in Federal Taxes in 2017, Gets $789 Million Windfall from New Tax Law
    https://itep.org/amazon-inc-paid-zero-in-federal-taxes-in-2017-gets-789-million-windfall-from-new-tax-law/

    Wow, you really are gullible if you read that article and believe it.

    the Seattle tax would have been a rounding error in their total tax bill.

    As has been explained many times, and everyone without a memory problem knows, it wasn’t the amount of the tax, nor was it that one item. Seattle is anti-business.

    Somewhat related to that topic was today’s story on Seattle City Light. Declining usage is causing rate increases (because rates have to pay for the electricity, infrastructure and fixed costs), and part of the reason for declining usage is reduced industrial use. So Seattle’s policies are making other things worse! But this little gem in the article was very funny.

    “We are ringing the alarm bell,” the [watchdog] panel wrote to Durkan in May. “Continual [electricity] rate increases that significantly outpace the rate of inflation are threatening our diverse economy. The projected rate of growth … is not sustainable.”

    LOL. It’s not the $15 minimum wage or many different types of new taxes that are going to threaten Seattle’s economy, it’s a 5% increase in the cost of electricity!

  145. 145

    By pfft @ 138:

    seattle is growing(the city council will get no credit for that though)

    I specifically asked you what they have done to make that happen, and you were not able to give an answer other than that the growth has happened. You apparently don’t understand that correlation is not causation.

    Without the Seattle City Council’s various policies the growth would have almost certainly been higher. Companies have left due to the minimum wage. Dicks has said it most likely will not expand further in Seattle and even threatened to leave the city entirely. Countless other businesses are making the same type of decision. That should benefit some of the suburban cities, but it also helps other regions of the country.

  146. 146
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 145:

    By pfft @ 138:

    seattle is growing(the city council will get no credit for that though)

    I specifically asked you what they have done to make that happen, and you were not able to give an answer other than that the growth has happened. You apparently don’t understand that correlation is not causation.

    Without the Seattle City Council’s various policies the growth would have almost certainly been higher. Companies have left due to the minimum wage. Dicks has said it most likely will not expand further in Seattle and even threatened to leave the city entirely. Countless other businesses are making the same type of decision. That should benefit some of the suburban cities, but it also helps other regions of the country.

    kary all of the actual evidence shows that hikes in the min wage have no effect.

    I ask again, if they are so bad why is seattle growing so much? you can’t answer that because they deserve some credit. you just have a different political ideology so you won’t give them any credit.

    “You apparently don’t understand that correlation is not causation. ”

    Yes I do. DOn’t act like you are some guardian of academic rigor. you embraced possibly the worst min wage study because it lined up with your beliefs while a more scientific study you rejected.

    But as soon as things go south you’ll blame them. you guys are hypocrites. Chumps tariffs and constant bashing of Amazon and Bezos have done more to harm Seattle than the city council.

    http://komonews.com/news/local/washington-state-could-take-a-hit-because-of-trumps-tariffs-on-chinese-goods

    If the city council is so bad why did Bezos have his HQ here?

  147. 147
    pfft says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 144:

    By pfft @ 136:

    Amazon Inc. Paid Zero in Federal Taxes in 2017, Gets $789 Million Windfall from New Tax Law
    https://itep.org/amazon-inc-paid-zero-in-federal-taxes-in-2017-gets-789-million-windfall-from-new-tax-law/

    Wow, you really are gullible if you read that article and believe it.

    the Seattle tax would have been a rounding error in their total tax bill.

    As has been explained many times, and everyone without a memory problem knows, it wasn’t the amount of the tax, nor was it that one item. Seattle is anti-business.

    classic kary, attacking my memory. nobody ever said it wasn’t the size of the tax. NOBODY. if you have evidence produce it, which you won’t.

    if they are so anti-business why is Seattle booming.

    what are you going to do about the homeless situation and the record number of homeless people that died last year.

  148. 148

    RE: pfft @ 147 – Why do you want to rehash the minimum wage study stuff? I didn’t raise the issue of overall employment, and I thought we’d made some progress there last time distinguishing between periodic increases and major increases.

    And why are you denying companies have left? That’s the issue I raised, and it’s true–and a different issue about overall employment–which was an argument I didn’t raise. Did you forget that companies have moved operations out of Seattle? Google Outdoor Research, Bartell Drugs, K2 Sports, all of which have move things out of the city.

    But to answer your question, Seattle is doing well because it has so many trees. They are beautiful, clean the air and encourage both profits and employment. That is just as good as your answer that it’s the city council, and actually even better because the trees have been around a lot longer than the current members of the city council. And not a one has threatened criminal prosecution of a business, nor have any of them attacked a business (even though they have really mixed feelings about Weyerhauser). So clearly the trees are more responsible for Seattle’s business success than the city council.

  149. 149
    Paulie says:

    By pfft @ 146:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 145:

    By pfft @ 138:

    seattle is growing(the city council will get no credit for that though)

    I specifically asked you what they have done to make that happen, and you were not able to give an answer other than that the growth has happened. You apparently don’t understand that correlation is not causation.

    Without the Seattle City Council’s various policies the growth would have almost certainly been higher. Companies have left due to the minimum wage. Dicks has said it most likely will not expand further in Seattle and even threatened to leave the city entirely. Countless other businesses are making the same type of decision. That should benefit some of the suburban cities, but it also helps other regions of the country.

    kary all of the actual evidence shows that hikes in the min wage have no effect.

    I ask again, if they are so bad why is seattle growing so much? you can’t answer that because they deserve some credit. you just have a different political ideology so you won’t give them any credit.

    “You apparently don’t understand that correlation is not causation. ”

    Yes I do. DOn’t act like you are some guardian of academic rigor. you embraced possibly the worst min wage study because it lined up with your beliefs while a more scientific study you rejected.

    But as soon as things go south you’ll blame them. you guys are hypocrites. Chumps tariffs and constant bashing of Amazon and Bezos have done more to harm Seattle than the city council.

    http://komonews.com/news/local/washington-state-could-take-a-hit-because-of-trumps-tariffs-on-chinese-goods

    If the city council is so bad why did Bezos have his HQ here?

    Well, Bezos picked this as the HQ 24 years ago, so the current council was not a factor. And since the current council has been in place, he now wants to open a HQ2. Come on. No company has an HQ2. He just cannot say he is going to move the HQ because it would disturb his current staff in Seattle very much so. The transition will take a very long time but if Seatte city council stays on its current path, Amazon’s HQ will not be in Seattle.

    The reality is that a business requires stability and certainty in its environment to properly invest in that environment. If regulation becomes volatile, business stop investing and wait for certainty. That is the problem in a nutshell. City council members are using public funds to print out TAX AMAZON signs (not “SAVE THE HOMELESS” signs mind you, as they have no earnest interest in saving the homeless) and lead protests at Amazon’s flagship campus. That is not an environment that inspires any business to invest in a future within Seattle.

    The whole head tax, and then repealing it, was like seeing your girlfriend go through a heroin addiction, come home with a tattoo, then writhe in withdrawal, clean up, go see a doctor about tattoo removal. Sure, everything is fine now but what is this woman going to do next? Do I really want to stick around to find out? And that is the quandary.

    What business will stick around to see what this hateful city government will do next?

  150. 150

    RE: Paulie @ 149 – What will they do next? Raise electricity rates for business! https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/seattle-council-approves-electricity-rate-hikes-directs-city-light-to-rethink-rate-structure/

    Because we all know it’s better to have an electric bill that is $5 less than otherwise. That way you’ll be able to afford it when you lose your job! /sarc

    Part of this is due to people becoming more efficient using electricity, part of it is due to industry leaving, but the new part here in the article is part is due to rising labor costs. I don’t get the problem on that one. The stated solution for $15 an hour minimum wages (which affects the amount paid to moderate wage employees too) is to raise prices! Now that is happening and Seattle itself doesn’t want to do that. Instead they want to cut expenses, which means in part fewer employees.

    But no, Seattle is not anti-business, and higher wages don’t affect employment. I don’t even know where I go such silly ideas. /sarc

    In 2014, Sawant proposed the council consider altering City Light’s rate structure to make big businesses pay more, possibly by moving to a single-rate class for all customers. At the time, no other council member supported even bringing the idea to a committee vote.

  151. 151

    On the impact of higher wages, here’s the Mayor’s letter regarding the cuts she wants at SCL. $18M a year from “maintenance and operations.”

    https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/4585957-Durkan-SCL-Letter.html

    Do you think that’s that they are going to start buying cheaper insulators, or are they going to employ fewer people?

Leave a Reply

Use your email address to sign up with Gravatar for a custom avatar.
Your email address will not be published.

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>

Please read the rules before posting a comment.