“Affordable” home price shot up 33% in less than two years

Reminder: Subscribers have access to the members-only spreadsheets folder, which is updated with the charts in this post.

As promised last week, here’s an updated look at the “affordable home” price chart.

In this graph I flip the variables in the affordability index calculation around to other sides of the equation to calculate what price home the a family earning the median household income could “afford” to buy at today’s mortgage rates, if they spent 30% of their monthly gross income on their home payment. Don’t forget that this math includes the (giant) assumption that the home buyers are putting 20% down, which would be $148,590 at today’s median price.

King Co. Actual & "Affordable" Home Prices

The “affordable” home price has shot up from $530,359 in November 2018 to an all-time high of $706,800 as of August. The current “affordable” home price in King County would have a monthly payment of $2,365.

The current gap of $36,150 between the affordable price and the median price is similar to the difference we saw between the two numbers in mid-2005.

If interest rates were at a more reasonable level of 6 percent (which is still quite low by historical standards), the “affordable” home price would be just $493,215—more than $200,000 below where it is today, and nearly $250,000 below the current median price.

Here’s the alternate view on this data, where I flip the numbers around to calculate the household income required to make the median-priced home affordable at today’s mortgage rates, and compare that to actual median household incomes.

King Co. Home Price, Income Req. to Afford

As of August, a household would need to earn $99,466 a year to be able to “afford” the median-priced $742,950 home in King County. This is up from the low of $46,450 in February 2012, but down slightly from the May 2018 high of $119,004. The previous cycle high in July 2007 was $99,321. Meanwhile, the actual median household income in King County is estimated to be about $94,500.

If interest rates were 6% (around the pre-bust level), the income necessary to buy a median-priced home would be $142,540—51 percent above the current median income.

3.60 avg. rating (73% score) - 5 votes

About The Tim

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market. Tim also hosts the weekly improv comedy sci-fi podcast Dispatches from the Multiverse.


  1. 251
    N says:

    @ Ardell – Any updated thoughts on the market? I think last time you suggested election risk and pending evictions + foreclosures (after forbearance) risks. Would love to hear your general thoughts.

  2. 252
    Eastsider says:

    By Eastsider @ 213:

    Actually renters prefer Eastside cities Bellevue, Redmond, Issaquah and Kirkland over Seattle. Below are median 1BR rent in various cities and the YoY change (source: Zumper). Note that Seattle metro area except Bellevue experienced rent decline while cities outside King county saw decent increase.

    Bellevue $1,857 -1%
    Redmond $1,740 -11%
    Issaquah $1,714 -5%
    Kirkland $1,700 -16%
    Seattle $1,600 -14%
    Sammamish $1,550 -4%
    Bothell $1,550 -3%
    Shoreline $1,320 -5%
    North Bend $1,150 0%
    Burlington $1,075 5%
    Olympia $1,400 6%
    Tacoma $1,270 6%
    Ellensburg $950 4%


    Now extrapolate to home prices???

    WSJ’s article today basically says the same thing.

    Renters Flock to Suburbia, Upending Decadelong Urbanization Trend
    New suburban tenants say the shift to a work-at-home model removed a longstanding barrier to living in these neighborhoods
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/renters-flock-to-suburbia-upending-decadelong-urbanization-trend-11602581401 (paywall)

    Excerpts –

    Even with the U.S. economy in recession, apartment rents in the suburban markets of Sacramento, Norfolk, Va., and the Inland Empire of Southern California rose 3.2% to 4.6% at the end of the third quarter compared with March, according to data firm CoStar Group Inc.

    At the same time, rents in central business districts in popular cities have been tumbling. San Francisco, where these rents are down 17% since the March peak, has been hardest hit, CoStar said. These district rents are down 9.2% in Boston and between 5% and 6% in New York, Los Angeles and Philadelphia.

    Overall, central-business-district rents are falling about 1% a month, CoStar said.

    Landlords point out that even before the pandemic, renters were starting to move out of higher cost markets like New York City and San Francisco to places like Austin and Denver, where they could get more space for their money.

    “We’ve continued to see those patterns, but now they’re at a higher clip,” said Bob Faith, founder and chief executive of Greystar Real Estate Partners LLC in Charleston, S.C., the country’s largest multifamily landlord, with 693,000 units owned and managed globally.

  3. 253

    RE: N @ 251

    Nothing’s changed. The Eastside still pretty red hot with 6-10 offers on most things and $100,000 bid ups being seen again. Not much distinction between great and poor locations within the same area. i.e. backs up to busy road getting as many offers as nearby better locations.

    They brought back Open Houses a few days ago. I was tempted to go see how they were handling the regs on that, just out of curiosity, but decided one more person hanging around for no essential reason wouldn’t be appropriate.

    I keep watching the DOW with the old “If it gets to 30,000, Trump will win the re-election” quote in my head.

    I don’t think anyone has a true handle on the % not paying rent stats, since most all of that is private between landlords and tenants. I think 25% is a fair guess. My biggest concern is the remedy for that will hit all at the same time. The minute they lift the moratorium on evictions and foreclosures, it would appear that at least for evictions which happen pretty quickly once allowed, will flood the streets with people who won’t qualify for a new place to be. So I think we will see a massive increase in displaced people before we see a change in home prices.

    Who becomes the next President will have some bearing on what happens next. We don’t have much longer to wait for at least that piece of the puzzle. Until then, no change since I last “spoke” here.

  4. 254
    N says:

    RE: Ardell DellaLoggia @ 253

    Thank you!!! Considering the city has tacked on 6 months to the end of the state eviction period, that would take you to at least end of June 2021. May be a while.

    We have been kicking the tires on a couple houses with an ADU we could rent and live in main living quarters, and in these times (COVID, plus West Seattle bridge here) certainly make it hard to project.

  5. 255
    Eastsider says:

    By Ardell DellaLoggia @ 253:

    I don’t think anyone has a true handle on the % not paying rent stats, since most all of that is private between landlords and tenants.

    According to the National Multifamily Housing Council (NMHC)’s rent payment tracker, 4 out of 5 apartment households made a full or partial rent payment by October 6.

    The struggle continues for American renters

  6. 256
    Erik says:

    RE: Ardell DellaLoggia @ 253
    I’m paying attention to 2 main things right now.

    1. Inflation
    2. Lending standards

    When inflation gets too high above 2.75%, the fed will be forced to raise mortgage rates to combat inflation. Fed already said they’ll let inflation run higher than the normal 2%, so I bumped my target a little.

    Lending standards are the last bullet the fed has in their arsenal to keep this thing going. At some point those will be compromised as a last ditch effort to keep people borrowing.

    Mortgage payment delinquencies are fake because those include mortgage forbearance and a lot of people are paddling their pockets with that money. When people don’t pay their rent they get booted to poor areas like Everett and Tacoma. People not paying rent will not crash the market.

  7. 257
    Beano says:

    By Erik @ 223:

    RE: Beano @ 222
    Sure, I’ll tell you what I’m thinking.

    Read “The Housing Boom and Bust” by Thomas Sowell. I’ve read it 10 times and Mr. Sowell explains the last housing boom and bust well. I think the coming boom and bust will be similar. We are due for a recession and all we can do is artificially inflate the economy to keep us out of a recession.

    Interest rates were reduced to stimulate the economy. That helped, but won’t last forever and I’m not sure rates can get much lower. The final thing that the fed can do to stimulate the economy is loosen lending standards like they did before the last crash.

    Last recession, lending standards were loosened for blacks to try and create more economic equality. Next, all minorities got their lending standards loosened in the name of equality. Finally, all races got their lending standards loosened. As you could guess, housing prices went way up and then crashed as people that weren’t financially fit to borrow defaulted on their loans.

    I’m already seeing articles about how minorities are being treated unfairly when it comes to borrowing. In my opinion, this is just a tool so the fed can loosen lending standards and continue to artificially prop up the economy. Eventually, everyone will have lending standards loosened, which will lead to a large housing price boom and bust.

    I’m just a guy that owns some rentals in Seattle because I want to create some passive income. Once I own a few rentals in Seattle without a mortgage, I can get a low paying, low stress, fun job and subsidize it with my passive income. At the peak, I’d like to sell some rentals and own some rentals mortgage free so I can live a low stress life and still be able to afford what I want.

    In conclusion, Seattle has high demand and will probably boom hard when lending standards are loosened. I’m sure it will bust when people default, but I’m not sure how bad. Near term, prices will go up. Mid term, prices will go up and then crash at some point. Long term prices will go up after the US and China reach a trade deal.

    Thank you Erik.

    Overall agree.

    I do think the spreading out of the boom zones lessens the fall when the market pulls back. All of the price appreciation isn’t in one basket so to speak.

    I expect inflation to hit hard in about 2 years.

    I actually see a super bull market starting now and in the spring and summer of 2021 the economy will be absolutely on fire.

  8. 258
    ruxpert says:

    Catherine Austin Fitts – R.Radio| Riots, Money And ‘Opportunity Zones’
    It’s ALL Planned! | Oct. 12, 2020

    “These are not riots, these are redevlopment teams;
    they’re just lowering the acquisition price”


  9. 259
    Erik says:

    RE: Beano @ 257
    I agree with you as far as a bull market coming before a crash. We are both watching inflation. I think inflation will be low enough that the Fed won’t raise interest rates until 2024, so my guess is 4 years before inflation gets too high.

    I don’t really have data to back that up other than the Fed said that they don’t foresee raising interest rates until 2024. Also, FAIT(Flexible Average Inflation Target) was passed to allow inflation run higher than the 2% target before having to raise interest rates. We are primed for a bull run and I’m looking to sell in about 4 years.

  10. 260
    Jeff says:

    RE: Erik @ 259

    Hi Erik, thanks for sharing your bold predictions. Is your outlook predicated on any particular outcome of the election, or would your predictions be similar no matter who won or whether there is a drawn out battle in the courts and society to determine the winner?

  11. 261

    Great Comments All

    There’s new construction on top of new construction and even a giant sized building above my HOA, it may be apartments or an adult family home….I’m sure the folks in my HOA living next to them appreciate their green belt replaced with towering windows peering into their homes above fence lines…LOL

    OK, gulp your Yuban down [its $6.27 for 32 oz at WINCO now] again and read the brief:

    “…Reinfections are real, but how common are they? Chances are, you don’t need to worry. But there are reasons to keep wearing masks even if you’ve recovered from COVID-19, doctors say…”

    SWE’s take: The Tooth Fairy knows why masks are needed when you developed an immunity to it?

    “…The Trump administration can halt the census ahead of schedule, the Supreme Court ruled yesterday amid fears of an undercount that would fall hardest on people of color. The administration argued that the head count needed to end immediately, to meet a deadline for deciding how states’ congressional seats are apportioned. Columnist Naomi Ishisaka wrote about who isn’t being counted and why that matters. ..”

    SWE’s take: I filled my Census Form out months ago; it came in the mail. I’m sure it was mailed to everyone of all ethnic groups that has an address the government can track…like a 1040 tax form or equivalent [the Stimulus Checks were delivered this way too]. The Census Bureau sent me an email [I gave them my email on the previous paper poll] a couple weeks ago and polled my Killer Flu degree of risk and short comings of enough stimulus $CASH$ per legal count. I was able to transmit to the Census Bureau that Wash St has not allowed me to see my disabled son for 6 months due to the on-going “Inslee Killer Flu lock-down” to date and parents in disability care have similar complaints, re: their children can’t visit them forever either. The State has allowed Killer Flu period late rent for the disabled the last 4 months, albeit I paid it all to the disabled Care Giver and he got the money anyway. I imagine late rent has been allowed and evictions blocked in Seattle to date. That ends Halloween BTW. Pelosi needs to get off her behind and join Trump NOW in distributing the $1.8 billion in stimulus money now, CNN reported yesterday. This is not political.

    Good News: Trump’s choice of Killer Flu cure gave him a negative reading days after testing positive….he was doing a rock dance at his Florida Rally yesterday; smiling and rolling is arms to the music,l the crowd went wild. No one wishes ill health on anyone, that’s not political either…

  12. 262

    RE: softwarengineer @ 261
    $1.8T not $1.8B…please correct comment above.

  13. 263
    redmondjp says:

    Drip, drip, drip . . . hey everybody, did you know that your sales tax will be going up by another 0.1% next year? Do you remember voting for that?

    And what are they going to do with all of that new money? Why, buying a hotel, nursing home or other multi-dwelling residence near you and filling it with PEH (Persons Experiencing Homelessness):


    Elections have consequences, people! And if you think that just by moving into the suburbs that you are far enough away from Seattle’s problems, you are wrong; they are bringing Seattle to you! This is what Mayor 867-5309 and make-mine-a-double Dow Constantine meant when they said: “This is a regional problem.” That’s code for taking Seattle’s problem and spreading it county-wide, and then having every citizen in King County pay higher taxes for the privilege. Voting in the correct people on city councils in suburban cities is very important here, but it may already be too late.

    Did you hear about one of the reasons why the Pink Elephant car wash downtown closed? Employees had to do “alley doody” and clean up all of the human feces every morning behind the business. Imagine going to work every day to wash cars and having to do that? But hey, that’s all part of progress in our inclusive, diverse, vibrant world, right? When the East Link is done, we will see an increase in the vibrancy and diversity of Eastside neighborhoods too, especially in wooded areas along roads and parks. Remember, you voted for this.

  14. 264

    Being a Landlord in Seattle Sounds as Scary as a Halloween Haunted House Now

    “…We still have a mortgage. We still have expenses on these properties,” he said. “But there comes a point where we will exhaust whatever reserves we have. At some point, we will fall behind on our payments. They can’t expect landlords to provide subsidized housing.”

    The stakes are particularly high for small landlords, whether they own commercial properties, such as storefronts, or residential properties such as apartments. Many are borrowing money from relatives or dipping into their personal savings to meet their mortgage payments…”


    Halloween is the last day of Killer Flu Stimulus Help…its HORRIFYING.

  15. 265
    Erik says:

    RE: Jeff @ 260
    I don’t think who wins presidency is all that important. The process of delaying a recession are pretty much known and likely won’t change.

  16. 266
    Mackenzie says:

    The real fallout from the recession won’t be felt until 2023. It won’t be until late 2021 that the payment deferrals (rent, mortgages, credit cards, etc) are removed. Then it will take about another eight to ten months after the end of deferrals for legal proceedings to begin against the debtors. Then you are looking at about another year after that for the distressed assets to hit the market. That’s likely 2023.

    Until then, we will continue to live in fantasy land where all the wreckage taking place in the economy is put on hold.

  17. 267
    ruxpert says:

    “Facts Do Not Matter” To The Covidian Cult

    Breath Easy Covid tin-foil

  18. 268
    David says:

    By Jeff @ 260:

    RE: Erik @ 259

    Hi Erik, thanks for sharing your bold predictions. Is your outlook predicated on any particular outcome of the election, or would your predictions be similar no matter who won or whether there is a drawn out battle in the courts and society to determine the winner?

    Uh oh, it’s Mr. BLM.

  19. 269
    David says:

    By Erik @ 256:

    RE: Ardell DellaLoggia @ 253
    I’m paying attention to 2 main things right now.

    2. Lending standards

    Lending standards are the last bullet the fed has in their arsenal to keep this thing going. At some point those will be compromised as a last ditch effort to keep people borrowing.

    Any bank that would lend to me should be shut down immediately.

  20. 270
    David says:

    By Bumble @ 246:

    By Erik @ 244:

    RE: David @ 240
    If you give free stuff to weak people, you are encouraging more weaknesses.

    Preach! That is pretty much exactly what Jesus said.

    A hungry old widow on a fixed income will never learn how to become strong if we don’t shut down her foodbank. What a crutch. Get a JOB grandma!

    And how about those weak people who are so poor and so physically disabled that they are statutorily unemployable? We should terminate the $783 they receive each month from the social security disability gravy train. That will EMPOWER them not to be so disabled and destitute!

    And what kind of message are we teaching poor American children by providing SNAP to their family? We should allow those children to get so hungry, for as many years as it takes, until they learn to scavenge their own meals! That is AGENCY!

    History teaches us that if we offer no aid to the weak, they always get STRONGER (they definitely don’t just die).

    For real though, Social Darwinism is some frightening BS. It doesn’t end well.

    I’m sure the Seattle Pimp will be more than happy to brush grannies gums with his Swartz if she needs cash. Give grannie the $150k job and let Pimp-Master-Flash work out his issues serving coffee at ‘Bucks.

  21. 271
    Erik says:

    RE: David @ 269
    May I ask why? Do you not pay your loans back?

    If you have a lucrative money making game that involves not paying your debts, please share… asking for a friend.

  22. 272
    Jeff says:

    RE: David @ 268

    I miss you too Moo Moo. Sorry I’ve been to busy to play pin the tail on the troll with you for a while. Frankly I probably won’t have much time for the foreseeable future, but I do check back every now and again to see how the Bubbles cast of characters are doing. Have you had any good circle jerks here lately?

  23. 273

    Hey, we’re Guzzling Coffee Today, but the Real Polls Say We hate Coffee Anyway? IMO, I’d Sum the poll error factor IMO at least 20-25% [the same data window that shows 25% more Democrats poll results are not voting anyway], ask Hillary in 2016.


    If we polled “Will Seattle Real Estate Go Up in Price for 2021” and just polled Sellers and Less Buyers, it would taint the result similarly. Seattle Bubble proves that outcome. But in the end, it is what it is when the real vote Nov 3rd occurs, not what we “personally” want all the time…or in this case, what new buyers can afford drives the real result IMO. Voting in the current vague error prone polls is not an electoral college result at all. Selling a house to someone that doesn’t qualify to buy it is the same sort of thing.

    “….With no high school football, a frustrated trainer staged his own game. Tracy Ford’s Tacoma mini-camp and showcase game two weekends ago, videotaped for college recruiters, featured up to 112 top players and well-known guest coaches. The only problem: It broke Washington’s COVID-19 safety rules. When it comes to athletics, enforcement varies from county to county and even town to town…”

    SWE’s take: Ya mean Inslee’s Lock-down is just vague guesses with no real platform in writing on Killer Flu killing off Husky Football? Or am I missing something here?

    “…Prosecutors say a Kirkland woman conspired with her lover to kill her husband, then fled the country after he was stabbed to death. Sahar Osama Fadaak, 41, was charged this week, and a $5 million warrant has been issued for her arrest…”

    SWE’s take: If ya buy a Seattle area house and depend on two incomes to do it and your spouse goes bad, they often do in Seattle….you’re screwed.

    Good News: It sounds like Erik survived three huge hurricanes in Louisiana, there is hope…

  24. 274

    Hey Poll This Group of Milenial/Gen-Zs on “Do They Think Seattle Real Estate and Rents Need to Increase”; BTW, even as early as 2000, George Bush alleged $10/hr Was GOOD PAY [about $20,000 a year per capita]:


    This is our new first time buyers’ pool, grim looking isn’t it. Just ignore them, they don’t matter in the polls? I read after the 1st debate 24% of this youth group switched to Trump, the internet won’t print that story anymore, check it out…the MSM is skewed as Hades IMO…they have Biden winning a debate call just because he won’t clarify his real tax increase agenda? Sounds like we know what we’re doing. Not.

  25. 275
    David says:

    By Erik @ 271:

    RE: David @ 269
    May I ask why? Do you not pay your loans back?

    If you have a lucrative money making game that involves not paying your debts, please share… asking for a friend.

    It was just a play on the Groucho Marx quote:

    “I won’t belong to any organization that would have me as a member. Groucho Marx”

    Personally, I always pay my debts. Hence I have no debt, no bankruptcies, etc. Well I do owe $160 on my new Tacoma Truck. I needed to take out a loan and keep it open for 6 months to get the huge discount.

  26. 276

    RE: David @ 275
    I’m Debt Free too David, Been that Way Since 2009, When I Paid My $80K Mortgage Principle Off

    The money I made from not paying mortgage interest to a bank and using it as replaced “early retirement” interest payments to me instead….paid for my $26,000 Kansas City foreclosure/flipper with the interest I did not pay the last 11 years, as a result the early retirement also bought my “loaded” new 2014 $24K Charger SE too…BTW….the Kansas City flipper lists for 3-4 times that price now, Hades I could take a “We Buy Ugly Homes” $CASH$ offer and still double my money the last 6 years…LOL…do the math. And my property tax 1/2 payment for the Kansas City flipper is due around Nov 15 2020, its like $88/mo…a joke compared to my HUGE King County mobile home property tax bill especially with HOA fee added in…do the math.

    BTW, Dave…every case is different, but 0% down for a new car is not a always a good way to lower total payments and insurance cost for life of car. That’s why I buy ’em new 100% $CASH$ only. My FICO score is off the Richtor Scale too and wash St charges car insurance based on FICO score. Call your insurance company.


  27. 277
    Blurtman says:

    RE: Mackenzie @ 266 – BiHarris’ raising taxes on higher income folks will have some effect on higher end home buying. Raising corporate taxes will cause stocks to go down, decreasing the wealth effect and lowering the home price target for affected folks. Higher corporate taxes means flight to more tax favorable environments, cutbacks in hiring in the US, and a decreasing pool of buyers. BiHarris’ pro-China policies means the continual export of jobs to China, also not good for increasing the home buyer pool. The old idea that the US gets out of manufacturing and excels in FIRE and tech has been proven to be garbage, but it is still a tenet of BiHarris’ neo-liberal string pullers.

  28. 278
    Erik says:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 276
    Great job in Kansas! Keep that thing rented forever and pass it down to your kids. Real estate is generational wealth. I want to own enough homes without a mortgage in order to live off the income. Then I’ll pass the whole portfolio off to my kids when I die debt free and professionally managed so they can’t screw it up. I want my children’s children to prosper off of my hard work.

  29. 279
    Erik says:

    RE: David @ 275
    Not even real estate mortgage debt?

  30. 280

    RE: softwarengineer @ 274

    The Biden Tax Plan Would assure Even the Bottom 20% Income Group has new Progressive tax tables increasing tax 30.3%…He’ll Never Admit it, But here It is in Wring…it all floats downstream…our financial hopes…


    Hey, too bad about that Seattle Cop [enjoying a Dunkin’ Doughnut and Coffee in his Seattle Police SUV?] some wild eyed radical set his vehicle on fire yesterday with a fire torch devise while he was in the vehicle….YIKES! Now tip your Dunkin’ Doughnut mugs of coffee and wish that peace officer a better day today; read the brief:

    “…More than 100 Seattle police officers have departed this year, as city leaders and residents debate whether and how the force should be reduced. The tally includes 39 just last month, according to the department, and a plan for layoffs is in the works…”

    SWE’s take: Assuming the Indeed employment per capita pay for the SPD is like $25/hr….would you work “treacherous” CHOP Hill for a mere $25/hr? LOL

    “…Seattle has launched a COVID-19 relief fund for undocumented immigrants who can’t access federal stimulus money. The $9 million fund is similar to a state fund; each offers grants of $1,000 to $3,000 per household…”

    SWE’s take: We have legal citizens going bankrupt and legal citizen low wages with high taxes due to Killer Flu….and illegal aliens are prioritized for $CASH$ relief on our legal citizen taxes’ backs anyway? Send the Halloween Frankenstein Monster loose on our Seattle Counsel politicians…

    Good News: Facebook and Twitter are in hot water for running a political smear business against Trump. They were caught blocking just Conservative views…perhaps they’ll lose users now. I would never use Facebook BTW….they require more personal information than I’d give my attorney…and Hackers are accessing it too.


    Yes 29M folks had personal information stolen by Hacker Thugs from Facebook. That’s not chump change either.

  31. 281

    RE: Erik @ 278
    Yes Erik:

    So much for that Fairy Tale if you go into huge student debt and are the ones that actually graduate with a degree [only 15% of the ones that majored in engineering at U of W actually graduated]…ya make a $million more than high school diploma folks or Associate Degree folks for that matter.

    Real Estate is something ya can control for your own Trump family with kids…my Milenial daughter is doing very well at age 32 with an Associate Degree. Create your own family wealth without basement dwellers until they’re 40-50 or ya die limping around and caring for their grandkids. You should see the giant [$1M?] new house they’re building next to my HOA, it looks like 4-5 thousand SF. I told ya my hill top land is valuable. I thought it was apartment building, until I saw the window lay-out…the neighbors across the street lost all their privacy now though and house values next to my HOA get averaged with mine now….LOL

  32. 282
    Seattle Seller says:

    Rents down 10%. https://www.seattlepi.com/realestate/slideshow/Seattle-Bellevue-see-significant-rent-decreases-211008.php When rents go down while purchase prices go up. something is out of whack.

  33. 283
    David says:

    By Erik @ 279:

    RE: David @ 275
    Not even real estate mortgage debt?

    No even mortgage debt at the moment. I like to own my house outright. And I have an expensive brand new ocean-front house in Florida.

  34. 284
    Erik says:

    RE: David @ 283
    Leveraging is how to make the loot. If you owned $10M in real estate and prices go up 10%, you make $1M in equity. If you had $10M worth of real estate in Seattle in 2012, you could sell now and make well over $10M. Seems like easy money.

  35. 285
    Erik says:

    RE: Seattle Seller @ 282
    A decrease in rent is not something that really concerns me. It’s a very small number in the scheme of things from my perspective.

    Why do you think it’s significant? Why is it significant to you?

  36. 286
    Justsomedude12 says:

    RE: Erik @ 285 – I’d also add that considering we’re in the midst of a pandemic with large swaths of the economy shut down, a 10% decrease in rents is pretty benign.

    Covid will get worked out one way or another, and the economy will move back upward from this very small downturn.

  37. 287
    ruxpert says:

    China, Real Estate, and Covid-19
    September 10, 2020 By Lamprey Milt

  38. 288
    Erik says:

    RE: Justsomedude12 @ 286
    A tenant could get injured and sue me. A tenant could destroy my property. A tenant could refuse to leave without paying. There could be water damage to my property costing loads of money. The market could crash hard and the value of my portfolio could go down substantially. HOA could have a substantial special assessment.

    Having to subsidize a little cash flow to my rental portfolio is the least of my worries. I throw in $20k to cover my loss in rental income and my value goes up $500k. Big deal, I only made $480k this year.

  39. 289

    Great Difference in Investing Styles in Comments; Lots of Unknowns Too, Like Abilities of Landlords to Use Emergency $CASH$ Funds to Cover Rent Losses Due to Eviction Ban:

    One size does not fit all. All investment plans should have elbow room for losses or they run much higher risk of failure:

    “…Apartment dwellers and other residential tenants in the U.S. owe roughly $25 billion in back rent, and that will reach nearly $70 billion by year’s end, according to an estimate in August by Moody’s Analytics.

    An estimated 30 million to 40 million people in the U.S. could be at risk of eviction in the next several months, according to an August report by the Aspen Institute, a nonprofit organization.

    Jessica Elizabeth Michelle, 37, a single mother with a 7-month-old baby, represents a growing number of renters who are afraid of being homeless once the moratorium on evictions ends…”

    SWE’s take: Let’s face it, a 37 year old single mom with an infant might as well as well have lepracy in the single dating world today. What single guy with means will marry into a “potentially likely” huge child care debt and very possible HUGE Wash St child support payments after the relation ends, they mostly do BTW. Nope, unless there is huge wage increases and more higher paid manufacturing jobs in America, this type of single family has no hope. Especially cities like Seattle. She “generally” needs rich parents or a homeless tent here, the last couple decades too….I hope you Bubbleheads have a example cure for this problem…explain it to me, please. BTW.

    “…This is not totally without reason, but it’s also a highly simplistic view of families in crisis. Of the nation’s 13-14 million single custodial parents in 2015, five out of six were mothers, and half have formal or informal child-support agreements, yet about 30 percent do not receive any agreed-upon payments. While the median amount that custodial parents are supposed to receive was $4,200 per year in 2015, the median payments actually received was only $1,656. Among the 5 million mothers awarded child support, 1.4 million fathers paid nothing. Although their absolute numbers are smaller, the proportion of custodial fathers who were supposed to receive support was actually higher — 365,000 out of 884,000…


    SWE’s take: Ya can’t get blood from a deadbeat dad rock…these are National Statistics, the King County “deadbeat dad” statistics are masked and most likely far worse than national averages…look for them…if ya find ’em, I’d like to know.

    Don’t Skip That Child Support Payment and remember your coffee too…read the brief:

    “…A retired UW professor has been charged with murder, accused of shooting his sleeping wife in Bellevue. Domestic-violence homicides have surged since the pandemic began. Read more…”

    SWE’s take: The Killer Flu isolation and telework stress mental illness and related crime is causing more divorces in 2020?…this dead King County wife depicts this likely grim possibility…

    “…Winter in the Seattle area will be colder and wetter than usual, according to a new long-term forecast from NOAA. But that doesn’t necessarily mean we’ll see heaps of snow. Read more…”

    SWE’s take: Cold Winters are a recent yearly trend in Seattle lately, not an exception.
    The rest of the brief is regurgitated news stories, I won’t repeat them…

    Good News: Many buck the establishment tide and put their “own” family well-being WAY ahead of real estate price growth. These are the successful folks in my book.

  40. 290
    TJ_98370 says:

    Now That Price Appreciation Isn’t There, Investors Are Saying, Oh Wait A Sec, There’s Some Risk In There

  41. 291
    justsomedude12 says:

    By Seattle Seller @ 282:

    Rents down 10%. https://www.seattlepi.com/realestate/slideshow/Seattle-Bellevue-see-significant-rent-decreases-211008.php When rents go down while purchase prices go up. something is out of whack.

    I think this is likely because renters tend to be more adversely affected by the shutdowns than potential buyers/owners.

  42. 292
    David says:

    By Erik @ 284:

    RE: David @ 283
    Leveraging is how to make the loot. If you owned $10M in real estate and prices go up 10%, you make $1M in equity. If you had $10M worth of real estate in Seattle in 2012, you could sell now and make well over $10M. Seems like easy money.

    I would say not to have everything leveraged at some point.

    Warren Buffett says there are only 3 things that can ruin a man:

    1) Ladies
    2) Liquor
    3) Leverage

    BUT really he means leverage.

  43. 293
    Erik says:

    RE: David @ 292
    Leverage is how I went from being a struggling aerospace engineer living hand to mouth to a much more comfortable financial position, so I don’t know… nothing will change my mind. I don’t want to retire when I’m old. Saving and investing in 401k is a sure way to lose. I want to be a young retired person, not an old retired person.

  44. 294
    ruxpert says:

    Danielle DiMartino Booth
    “We haven’t seen how bad it can get.”

  45. 295
    David says:

    By Erik @ 293:

    RE: David @ 292
    Leverage is how I went from being a struggling aerospace engineer living hand to mouth to a much more comfortable financial position, so I don’t know… nothing will change my mind. I don’t want to retire when I’m old. Saving and investing in 401k is a sure way to lose. I want to be a young retired person, not an old retired person.

    Leverage makes sense on real estate deals for sure. The IRR goes up substantially.

    I just like to own my main residence. Especially in Florida where it is protected from creditors in almost all cases. I’ve owned outright for quite a long time in 3 different states.

    But I have certainly even had that leveraged when I was younger. Housing inflation sure is nice in a leveraged position.

    Zillow, today, is saying the area I live in now will go up 8% by next year – not too shabby if it can be sustained.

  46. 296

    Great Opinions All, You made SWE Think

    Hey Erik, have you seen the 50 somethings and even the 40 somethings working and look horribly “fat and old” and limping around at work; conversely retired folks at 70 with six pack abs or women over 50 that look better in a bikini than the 30-40 year olds? IMO, its all DNA luck…pick your parents carefully…LOL…also:


    So much fake news and how working forever extends your life, what a joke….they probably read and believe that fake news from the CDC….LOL

    BTW, a Vietnamese engineer at Toastmasters brought this to my attention about a year before my full pension/retirements went into effect in 2015 [I was gonna work until 66/67, but ran the numbers and my 62 YO net retirement pay was the same working or retiring]. Even SWE was fooled…LOL…do your own numbers, don’t assume its a joke. A good rule of thumb if you’re hoofing it with mostly just Social Security, Medicare and locked box 401Ks; a million of $CASH$ unlocked in MM saved is about $5000/mo retirement “extra” for 20 years at 0-1% savings interest. Do the math. The last 5 years out of the office and I’m reading more and laughing more too…its all good. Also, now I know retired I can save like Buffet; my net worth grew retired in 5 years by about 40%. Unlock your 401Ks into MM and still save it all for later and then some….the fun goes on and on; my recent bank statements make me dance…LOL…if I ever find out I need a disabled home with doctors and such for $4-8K/mo, I’m ready. If you’re married, budget intensive nursing home needs for wife too…$8-16/mo and assume the wife’s retirement income will be taxed at a high marriage bracket tax chart [25-30%?]. Get older and get younger/richer too, get retired ASAP…LOL…do the math.

    Now grab your coffee and gulp it all down, its good for your health and read the brief:

    “…Vietnamese Americans lean heavily toward President Trump, but a progressive faction is pushing back. The rancor is intense among many still traumatized by war and harrowing escapes from a communist regime. Read more…”

    SWE’s Take: Vietnamese aren’t stupid, they don’t want Socialism/Communism snuck in with a “nothing burger Communist style progressive agenda” before election. They won’t be fooled, they’re like SWE. The Latinas I know are in that camp too. Read their agenda in writing to believe IOWs.

    “..Internal documents show that while the Carlisle Companies conglomerate blamed the pandemic downturn for its decision to shutter a Kent factory and lay off almost 600 people, it’s actually moving much of the work to China and Mexico to bolster profit margins. Read more…”

    SWE’s Take: The Boeing 787 engineering group was suppose to be moved to Chili about 15 years ago, I know, I was dating a $30/hr 787 engineer with about 5 years experience and she told me. BTW, she had a $400K mortgage in SEATAC and she needed a mortgage sharing buddy..LOL…no thanks.

    “…There’s enough at stake for to keep playing, but the inevitable spike in positive cases have predictably disrupted the season. Read more…”

    SWE’s Take: Vote Biden if ya want flu masks until 2022 [it seems to be the progressives’ political Halloween Costumes lately]…mandatory flu masks forever agenda and a slamdunk “Great Shutdown Economy Depression” ahead….or Trump and a “V” shaped 29000 DOW economy with mitigated shutdown…you choose. Vote!

    Everything else related to Seattle RE price prediction in the brief is regurgitated news, I won’t repeat it.

    Good News: Retirement is within all our reach, but do the math….LOL

  47. 297
    wreckingbull says:

    By Erik @ 293:

    RE: David @ 292 – Saving and investing in 401k is a sure way to lose. I want to be a young retired person, not an old retired person.

    As someone who actually did retire young, I can say this is some pretty dismal investment ‘advice’. But then again, you also pioneered negative cash flow condo investing, so I would imagine most people on SB know to take your investment advice as a sort of parody.

  48. 298
    wreckingbull says:

    By Justsomedude12 @ 286:

    RE: Erik @ 285 – I’d also add that considering we’re in the midst of a pandemic with large swaths of the economy shut down, a 10% decrease in rents is pretty benign.

    Covid will get worked out one way or another, and the economy will move back upward from this very small downturn.

    I don’t think that is the reason. The reason is what we have been seeing for the last eight years – a massive apartment building boom which has resulted in an oversupply. Also, while I don’t agree 10 percent is benign, usually these rent studies don’t include incentives. Most places are offering 1-2 months free with a lease these days. I’d say the real number is closer to 20%.

  49. 299
    Erik says:

    RE: David @ 295
    You are right, I think we are on the same page. I do Dave Ramsey’s total money makeover with my personal finances, which includes paying off your mortgage on step 6. I just haven’t paid off my home yet. I went straight to the wealth building faze and now I’m looping back to get everything else done. My investing side is where I do all the leveraging. I separated my personal finances and investing recently, and I use to leverage myself when I was too poor to separate my finances.

  50. 300
    Erik says:

    RE: wreckingbull @ 297
    I’ve made a lot of money condo investing. I make more investing in real estate than I do at my job. I’d say I’ve done pretty well and I’m on track to retire early.

    Now I have a decent size real estate portfolio with very low risk. I proved my method.

  51. 301
    Erik says:

    RE: wreckingbull @ 298
    You are one of the people on this site that do not understand investing. You made a high income and didn’t have to understand investing. When it comes to investing you are extremely ignorant.

    That said, I actually agree with you. A bunch of low square footage apartments were pushed out in Seattle causing an oversupply and pushing down prices. Good job on not being wrong 100% of the time.

  52. 302
    Erik says:

    RE: softwarengineer @ 296
    I was a stress engineer in a Boeing 787 Structures Leading Edge Engineering group and I didn’t hear any rumors about moving to Chili.

  53. 303
    uwp says:

    By Seattle Seller @ 282:

    When rents go down while purchase prices go up. something is out of whack.

    Maybe a global pandemic where people are stuck inside and would prefer a home vs an apartment?

  54. 304
    justsomedude12 says:

    RE: wreckingbull @ 298 – I think it’s a little strange to conclude the 10% Seattle/Bellevue rent decline that coincided with covid is really due to overbuilding, and not covid.

    So all of the other high priced cities that have had a similar or greater decline in rents also overbuilt on exactly the same scale and schedule as Seattle, and now they’re all declining in unison due to overbuilding? And the fact that it’s during covid is just a coincidence?

  55. 305
    ruxpert says:

    Covid cabin-fever relief on the horizon?
    UPDATE in the Corona Scandal by DR. REINER FUELLMICH translated to ENGLISH

  56. 306
    David says:

    By Erik @ 300:

    RE: wreckingbull @ 297
    I’ve made a lot of money condo investing. I make more investing in real estate than I do at my job. I’d say I’ve done pretty well and I’m on track to retire early.

    Now I have a decent size real estate portfolio with very low risk. I proved my method.

    Don’t pay too much for THAT house: https://youtu.be/kxwsrkDTGAk?t=42

  57. 307

    RE: Erik @ 302
    The Lady Engineer on the 787 was working at Tukwila Oxbow Around 2010 and Was Not Doing Stress Analysis, She Was Doing a Lot of Travel and Photo Op Jobs; worked mostly non-design PR tasks.

    She gave me the verbal allegation on the whole 787 engineering department “possibly” moving to Chili [she showed me a travel DVR of her on Boeing TV, she may have heard it from coffee pot chatter you didn’t hear]; but she also was recently divorced making puny Boeing pay with a $480K SEATAC home mortgage too….I noticed the import export bank and the Boeing unions with SC are recently getting “antsy” about the 787 Everett cost of union production wages….so the program is not only plagued in defects, but management was running around like a chicken with its head cut off to cut wage engineering costs at that time [the schedules were all going to pot] too. What I’m saying Erik, her Oxbow group may have had an understandable “potential” incorrect company leak, your 787 design stress group didn’t have. You’re probably right, she was a village idiot when it came to buying homes with a feasible plan too.


    The 787 is a program plagued with defects and poor management from day one. The engineering department always gets blamed [i.e., the 737 MAX crashes]. 787 Plastic based composite planes [90% outsourced] are better than aluminum? Not in my book. I see why you left the Seattle Area to find a decent spouse in the Midwest States, my daughter did that too…LOL…you do aerospace stress analysis too, how can you safety factor 787 composite parts with hidden”voids” in the part? Ya can’t, but the foreign 787 parts subcontractor needs “costly” x-ray machines at QA and most didn’t have ’em then [now too?] to weed them out…BTW, voided [interior unglued] plastic based composite defective parts get by foreign/domestic QA inspections all the time, its SOP. I saw that chronic potential defect CSI defect all the time as a safety engineer on all programs with composites, its horrifying. It just takes one bad “critical safety item” part to slip by and the whole A/C is junk.

    Thanks for the input Erik. It all floats down stream….LOL…I believe you more than her too. It still doesn’t excuse the 737 [its military based too] for “stealth” removing English drawings with Japanese Drawings; re: on-going Boeing stealth Seattle area outsourcing 90% of the 737 life cycle jobs to Japan…military A/C 737 manufacturing trade secrets for possible and likely outsourcing to Communist China is even worse. Trump brought this military “Asian” manufacturing 737 trade secret leak to China up too in 2016.

    Hey, time for a change….try a delicious large Mocha caffeine milkshake at Arbys for $4…now you have whipped cream and chocolate on your mouth and read the brief:

    “… Ballots piling up in King County drop boxes at unprecedented rate
    Elections workers began picking up ballots earlier than usual as a steady stream of voters packed them full. Some boxes have already been emptied more than once, and a disgusting surprise in one had King County Elections tweeting good-naturedly, “It’s a good night to thank an election worker!” Black Americans are casting early ballots in striking numbers, with many describing their vote as an urgent stand against racial injustice. Find ballot help in The Seattle Times’ voter guide and, separate from our news coverage, the editorial board’s endorsements. (Photo: Bettina Hansen / The Seattle Times)…”

    SWE’s take: What difference does it make what box you vote from, mailed or separate from the post office? Either one can be potentially messed with by party crooks and scooped up, separated and thrown in the trash by the handfuls regardless, just like NJ did to thousands of GOP ballots. I’m using the Post Office to vote today. It all floats down stream…my mind was made up four years ago on Presidential candidate. It hasn’t changed at all. And that King County ballot tracking system, no matter which box I stuff it in, is reliable? Lord only knows…its just like trusting FDIC bank insurance to protect your $CASH$ after the banks threatened to possibly close all their doors in 2008…a joke. Remember the 1929 Great Depression and locked down bank doors…LOL

    “…The presidential candidates’ stark divide over climate change is hitting home in Washington state, from Joe Biden’s plan to zap carbon emissions at a breakneck pace (you can see Gov. Jay Inslee’s fingerprints on this) to President Donald Trump’s inclination for states to chart their own path….”

    SWE’s take: Climate change is a great hypothesis with conflicting data, like the recent record COLD Seattle Winters…one size does not fit all. Or CO2 levels with average temperatures peaking and decreasing since 1937….Lord only knows….polar bear populations are growing exponentially lately too…check it out.

    “… King County Prop. 1: Voters will decide whether to spend $1.74 billion on Harborview Medical Center. See what you’d pay, and what the money would buy…”

    SWE’s Take: Raise property taxes and build more practically empty new hospitals?

    “…This “tale of two hospitals” is a function of clumsy, if well-intentioned, federal and state directives to halt all non-emergency procedures, which appeared at first blush to be a reasonable precaution to limit unnecessary exposure and safeguard staff, beds and equipment.

    But instead of merely preserving hospital beds and other resources, this heavy-handed injunction has created a burden of its own design: a historic number of empty beds in systems left untouched by the pandemic.

    Those hospitals have resorted to unprecedented levels of furloughs to stave off temporary budget shortfalls, but industry and economic trends point to more lasting outcomes unless immediate action is taken.


    I’m voting “NO” on Proposition 1….Hades, the hospitals’ mandatory Medicare cost limits make growth a joke. Ask a recent Medicare patient how small their hospital Part A bill was…LOL…it didn’t pay for a fraction of the MSRP prices…

    “…”Oh my goodness … that’s got to be a problem.” Dr. Anthony Fauci last night said he wasn’t surprised at Trump’s illness after watching the event that would become a superspreader, and he also described how the White House kept him from talking to journalists…”

    SWE’s take: Ya test positive now and most have mild or no symptoms too…ask the Trump family. Flu has always been this way…it starts out like a lion and generally morphs into an innocuous mutated strain lamb after about 4-6 months, its SOP folks. They’re trying to scare us to death with politics IMO. Open up America again and stop the push for more “brainless” Socialist type dictating. Open the da_n schools up NOW you political hacks…

    “… Is it OK to travel yet? With many people making plans, and traffic at Sea-Tac Airport hitting a pandemic high, Travel Troubleshooter outlines key coronavirus benchmarks to consider…”

    SWE’s Take: I see United Airlines now alleges air travel safer than flu lock-downs….how many of you caught colds after air travel with recycled Airline air?…lots…I’m not suggesting don’t ride in a commercial jet, this virus risk has been innocuous and SOP all along.

    “…One Seattle music teacher has a unique way of helping kids get through online classes: the didgeridoo, an instrument developed by the aboriginal peoples of northern Australia. Cuauhtemoc Escobedo, of Eckstein Middle School, is trying to figure out how to build, disinfect and get 100 didgeridoos to his students. For the moment, though, he’ll try anything to engage his students — including playing didgeridoo music that one of his sixth-graders calls “voooom voooooom, very wavery and really fun.” (Photo: Bettina Hansen / The Seattle Times)..”

    SWE’s Take: Blowing through Viking Type horns will teach them math and science online….not. This is our Seattle area online public schools hard at work? I’d switch the nut off and watch Looney Toons on TV instead.

    Good News: The “V” shaped Trump recovery added about a million new jobs in Sep 2020 alone…real estate sales and prices have grown exponentially too lately…the flu is over.

  58. 308
    don says:

    Pretty hard to find Chili on the map, good thing they dropped the proposal.

  59. 309

    Hey, “I VOTED”….now get out to your mailbox in your “Isolation Pig” Pajamas and VOTE. McDonalds has McCafe gourmet Starbucks Type brews 2 for 1 With the BOGO coupon; Gulp Both Down and read the brief:

    “… Transit measure tests voters’ willingness to boost sales tax
    Seattle’s Proposition 1 would hike the sales tax to fund bus service and other transit programs, as government budgets reel from the pandemic and fewer people commute. Here’s what it would cost, and what it would buy. (Photo: Ken Lambert / The Seattle Times)..”

    SWE’s take: My disabled son used Metro’s ACCESS years ago and yes, it can help disabled folks and poverty level workers like him….but its a complete MOOT point when disabled homes got turned into Killer Flu prisons by Inslee. They are all locked up like prisoners in the Family Adult Homes like prisoners with no visitation allowed the last 6 months. Until they open up Seattle for business; vote NO on Prop 1 and furlough without pay all the bus drivers like they did the schools, churches, etc, etc….

    “… Today is the deadline for a deal on COVID-19 relief, a target imposed by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. It’s not looking good. With time nearly up for Congress and the White House to deliver aid to Americans before the election, the big question is: If not now, when? Find today’s live updates here…”

    SWE’s take: Pelosi has a 27% approval rating last I saw. She doesn’t care about us voters; just her party’s political PORK Killer Flu money GRAB. She “unilaterally” extended the “BLOCKED” stimulus money to the poor deadline until Halloween last I read. The poor eat cake. We’re about $27T in debt now and she thinks there’s plenty more to borrow anyway. BTW, the Progressives had a good stock market run on $2-4T QE to the BANKSTERS from 2008-2016; Trump adds MASS jobs [1 million last month alone] and a “V” shaped 29000 DOW without using this progressives’ “Quantitative Easing Scam” with simultaneous much higher Obama tax tables stealing 30% more taxes [I assume now] from even the bottom 20% “POVERTY” household income poor [yes, many in that group owe federal income taxes, especially singles]…a HUGE difference in agendas and the Progressives fail to mention it now….IMO, vote your pocketbook, its our only hope now. Don’t believe “COMMUNIST STYLE” devilish lie promises fake political campaigns, just believe American Patriot vows in writing with hand on Bible, BEFORE ELECTION only too…promises made, promises kept IOWs.

    “…The pandemic has turkey farmers flapping about a sizable problem: too many big birds to fit Americans’ new Thanksgiving needs. (Here’s guidance from disease specialists on how to decrease risk as you make tough calls about the holidays.)..”

    SWE’s Take: Hey you isolation pigs won’t have family Thanksgiving Celebrations to mooch off anymore; enjoy the new Red Robin pizza carry out with $8 Take Out beers….pretend its delicious dark meat from the Turkeys we stopped buying….

    “…South King County has fewer registered voters than other parts of the county, but the Rev. Jimmie James is out to change that. He and leaders of other community organizations are educating and registering voters who have been historically underserved — and their work is making a difference. See voter registration and turnout rates near you. (Photo: Steve Ringman / The Seattle Times)..”

    SWE’s Take: Maybe we don’t register to vote because all we get are these tax and spend Progressive clowns anyway…LOL

    Good News: The Killer Flu Isolation Pigs won’t be eating Thanksgiving Turkey; they should just fast that day anyway…

  60. 310

    Global Cooling Sending Seattle Temperature Predicted at 38 degrees By Thursday Evening

    Snow in October is rare; but Covington/Kent could see mid 30s by Thursday…we’re always colder than downtown Seattle…break out the tire chains before November? Your HUGE utility bill “additional” mortgage payments on those huge new homes should hit soon now…

    Good News: Killer Flu isolation pigs can stay at home if it it snows soon…LOL

  61. 311
    ruxpert says:

    Dr. Elke De Klerk: We do not have a medical pandemic.

    World Doctors Alliance: “We Do Not Have A Medical Pandemic.”

  62. 312

    Hey, the Yuban 31 oz container is $12 at Safeway, $6.27 at WINCO….I had two WINCO Mugs Already, time for the Brief:

    “… Fall COVID-19 surge has arrived and may soon worsen, state officials fear
    Coronavirus cases are rising “at an alarming rate” in Western Washington, health officials say, and projections indicate we’re facing several difficult months. This has state health officials warning that the surge may strain local hospitals. And it’s not just our region: Across nearly the entire nation, the virus is rebounding with a vengeance, and this wave threatens to be the worst yet. (Photo: Erika Schultz / The Seattle Times)…”

    SWE’s Take: Its SOP flu cases to go up in Fall, its always been that way. Now go to the internet and sludge threw the foggy Killer Flu death-rate statistics and all I see is unclear and conflicting statistics probably all mixed together with diabetes, heart disease and other pneumonia causes mixed with colds, old age immune responses and other flu strains besides Killer Flu. Fuzzy Math IOWs, more akin to Crystal Ball Gazing than medically sound science data….check it out yourself.

    Good News: Erik and David have answers for the 2021 housing sales predictions. I predict diametric opposite directions sales/prices will go depending on who wins the Presidential Election. Its good news because the strong economy candidate now has an 87% of winning…just heard it today from a new report. Now smile and down a small ZOMBIE SKITTLES bag of Halloween candy, drooling red dye all over your isolation pig pajamas. I just spoke to my neighbor who is an experienced real estate agent; the current V shaped economic recovery is causing her sales profits to rise…she agrees with my prediction too.

Leave a Reply

Use your email address to sign up with Gravatar for a custom avatar.
Your email address will not be published.

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <s> <strike> <strong>

Please read the rules before posting a comment.