Posted by: The Tim

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market.

25 responses

  1. Can you graph the foreclosure rate as a % of households in foreclosure. I know the households per foreclosure rate is an interesting metric of loading, but the differences between levels is hard to conceptualize. Moving from 2500 to 1500 is not nearly as big a deal as moving from 1500 to 500, for example.

  2. Any idea how these Households/NTS numbers stack up to our California counterpart?

  3. I WAS CRITICIZED ON THIS BLOG IN 2005 FOR BEING A DR DOOM WARNING THAT FORECLOSURES WILL DRAMATICALLY WORSEN SOON

    Where’s the apology to me, lol.

  4. Percentage of households in foreclosure is definitely a more intuitive way of talking about things.

    Foreclosures as a percentage of listings might be a better predictor of price declines, though.

  5. Tim,

    I know it would be a lot more work for you, but you really need to show a graph of the late 1970’s through 2008 to put the current foreclosure rate into perspective.

    The last time we had a large number of foreclosures in this area was the late 1980’s and early 1990’s … so only going back to the year 2000 does not really tell us if the recent uptick in foreclosures is any worse than it was in other “down” real estate cycles.

  6. whoops .. my bad.

    That’s what I get for skipping to the charts!

    Please delete my previous post since you already covered it.

    Thanks!

  7. Pierce County has got to go underwater hard-core in the near future. This place had almost as much high-interest loan exposure as CA. I figure a few more months of this recession will do wonders for price affordability there. Once it goes belly-up, the rest of WA will follow.

    Software Engineer: I’m sorry people criticized you for using your brain in 2005. Stop doing that, and you’ll fit in to the rest of the world just fine. Take criticism as a compliment, as you’ll miss it if it ever goes away.

  8. I know it would be a lot more work for you, but you really need to show a graph of the late 1970’s through 2008 to put the current foreclosure rate into perspective.

    The last time we had a large number of foreclosures in this area was the late 1980’s and early 1990’s … so only going back to the year 2000 does not really tell us if the recent uptick in foreclosures is any worse than it was in other “down” real estate cycles.

    The standard statistics of inventory, sales, and foreclosures are woefully inadequate in helping us get a true historical perspective of what is happening today. To really compare this downturn to past ones we would need to look at the percentage of home-owners who have no equity or exotic mortgages (e.g. option ARM, neg-am, zero down, etc). Unfortunately, I don’t think such data is available.

    Nevertheless, we know that borrowing requirements NEVER got as loose as they have been in the new millenium even back in the booms of the last 40 years which makes a strong case for stating that there are higher percentage of over-extended Seattle area home-owners than at any other time in modern history.

  9. Everyone better go see the WOLF lodge South of Olympia before it gets closed down. Look at the PPS! GOOD LORD! 200-300 a night? In this economy? Not even my old friend can help this stock ……………………….http://www.rallymonkey.com/oldvideo.phpp

    Just built at the wrong time!

  10. Are these new NTSs reported per month or are they “active” NTSs as of end of month indendent on when they are issued? Could you for example sum the months and get a picture of the yearly NTS rate?

  11. Wow! Thats a crazy graph! What percentage of these foreclosures are caused by ARMS? I am a Vancouver real estate agent and in Canada ARMS were never allowed.

  12. This mess is just getting started.

  13. Ardell has called the bottom of the market over on raincityguide.

  14. The RE I was dealing with recently implied that prices were not going down much more if at all, when I said I was going to wait a bit longer.

    Buy, buy, please pleasessssse buy now!

  15. Ardell has called the bottom of the market over on raincityguide.

    to be fair, she called the bottom as 15% off where we are today – at the late 04/early 05 level. That’s 30-33% off peak.

    I’m inclined to agree with her. At that point, Price:Income and Price:Rent ratios will be back in line with historical norms. Prices may over adjust a bit – but I think most of the risk will be out of the market.

    But of course, I am having lunch with Sniglet today – so maybe I will come back as a “super bear” :^)

    She has good intuition and she is much more willing to put her opinion out there than any of her counterparts. Doesn’t hid behind the “unknowable”

  16. Here is a great video…. I’m sure the Tim can relate to him.

    Say what you will about Peter Schiff –- self-promoter, etc. – but he nailed the current crisis first, best, and most lucidly. And, to his credit, he got out in public saying it over and over again, despite harsh skepticism sent his way. As PE Wire said this morning, this may just be the video of the year.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2I0QN-FYkpw

  17. Say what you will about Peter Schiff –- self-promoter, etc. – but he nailed the current crisis first, best, and most lucidly.

    Really? It seems that he has been completely off-base in his view that commodities and foreign/emerging markets would be going gang-busters even while the US tanked. His predictions for a crashing US dollar haven’t worked all that well either.

    Mike Shedlock, over at http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/, has been far more accurate in his analyses. Of all the analysts I read I think the all-star award goes to Bob Prechter. He is about the ONLY person who has been calling for deflation over the last decade. Even the bears believed we were headed towards hyper-inflation and currency destruction.

  18. Price:Income and Price:Rent ratios

    Price is important to look at, but you always seem to leave out supply as a factor.

  19. Front page headline news about real estate was a lot different a year and a half ago……..
    .

    Kitsap County Home Values: What Went Up Has Now Come Down
    .

    If you bought a home in Kitsap County in 2006 or 2007, when prices peaked, there’s a one in three chance you owe more on your mortgage than your home is worth today.
    .
    That somber conclusion comes from online real-estate service Zillow.com.
    .
    It also says home values in Kitsap have fallen 12 percent since the spring 2007 peak, and are at 2005 levels now, for a median value of $277,724……

    .

  20. A lot of us are influenced by who we hang out with. I know Dan from a completely different issue, and know him to be a great guy, a smart guy, and a good hearted guy. But I’m not sure about those street toughs he’s hangin with.

  21. regardless of whatever these charts say, if the powers that be start accepting that we are entering a depression – Merill Lynch, Soros, UK’s finance minister etc have all said that in the last week, then houses will go down to those magic price levels of the distant past, 100k in Seattle. Of course, the video game industry is doing well, cheapest way for unemployed people to waste time, tech layoffs are not yet nearly as bad as they were in the 2001, and the NW isnt in a drought and burning up like CA so we’re still gonna get an inflow of refugees from the rest of the country. We shall see.

  22. Price is important to look at, but you always seem to leave out supply as a factor.

    Sorry, I don’t get your point. What about supply as a factor are you trying to point out?

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