Around the Sound: Still a dismal market for buyers everywhere

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Let’s take a look at our stats for the local regions outside of the King/Snohomish core. Here’s your October update to our “Around the Sound” statistics for Pierce, Kitsap, Thurston, Island, Skagit, and Whatcom counties.

Things are looking pretty similar all around the Puget Sound region—extremely low supply, high demand, and skyrocketing prices. The one tiny bright spot for buyers is that new listings are higher than they were a year ago in every county.

First up, a summary table:

October 2020 King Snohomish Pierce Kitsap Thurston Island Skagit Whatcom
Median Price $745,000 $579,972 $430,000 $437,000 $395,000 $449,000 $441,500 $474,450
Price YOY 12.9% 17.2% 17.8% 13.2% 13.4% 24.7% 17.6% 13.2%
New Listings 2,986 1,309 1,512 472 492 173 197 320
New Listings YOY 29.7% 20.6% 23.1% 27.9% 21.8% 29.1% 4.2% 4.9%
Active Listings 2,258 652 881 280 217 122 188 323
Active YOY -37.6% -59.2% -46.6% -42.5% -54.4% -60.3% -44.9% -51.4%
Pending Sales 3,007 1,403 1,658 524 549 182 219 331
Pending YOY 16.0% 12.4% 11.2% 10.3% 11.8% 16.7% -0.5% 2.2%
Closed Sales 3,027 1,438 1,520 527 522 179 232 344
Closed YOY 36.0% 36.0% 18.0% 28.9% 15.0% 32.6% 22.1% 19.0%
Months of Supply 0.7 0.5 0.6 0.5 0.4 0.7 0.8 0.9

Median home prices were up in every single county from a year earlier. King County’s 13 percent increase was actually the smallest around the sound, while the largest price gains were in Island County.

Median Sale Price Single-Family Homes

Year-Over-Year Change in Median Sale Price Single-Family Homes

Here’s the one sort-of bright spot for buyers: New listings are on the rise, especially in King County.

New Listings of Single-Family Homes

However, active listings are down dramatically from a year ago in every county. The biggest decline was in Island County (probably no surprise then that prices are up the most there), where listings fell by 60 percent from a year earlier. King County saw the smallest drop, but was still down 38 percent.

Active Listings of Single-Family Homes

Closed sales were up across the board in every single county. The biggest gains were in King and Snohomish Counties, which both saw closed sales increase 36 percent from a year ago. Pierce and Thurston had the smallest gains at 18 percent and 15 percent, respectively.

Closed Sales of Single-Family Homes

Months of supply is just absolutely abysmal for buyers everywhere. Every single county less than one month of supply in October.

Months of Supply Single Family Homes

In summary: It’s still a pretty terrible time to be a home buyer, across the entire Greater Seattle Area.

If there is certain data you would like to see or ways you would like to see the data presented differently, drop a comment below and let me know.

5.00 avg. rating (97% score) - 7 votes

About The Tim

Tim Ellis is the founder of Seattle Bubble. His background in engineering and computer / internet technology, a fondness of data-based analysis of problems, and an addiction to spreadsheets all influence his perspective on the Seattle-area real estate market. Tim also hosts the weekly improv comedy sci-fi podcast Dispatches from the Multiverse.

2,452 comments:

  1. 2251
    Erik says:

    RE: northender @ 2249
    I believe Wells Fargo froze personal lines of credit to push borrowers into higher risk credit cards, not to deleverage. I’m not sure though, but that’s my hunch. Why offer credit at a lower rate when you can offer it at a higher rate?

  2. 2252
    Whatsmyname says:

    By ruxpert @ 2245:

    RE: Whatsmyname @ 2243
    Take your own advice regarding what you wrote:
    “Superficially, this sounds clever. But it’s semantics. ”

    Rather than conflate & confuse, which you often do …
    Answer the questions asked, rather than ‘pretend’ to do such by asking a list of questions in order to avoid the questions you ‘pretend’ to be answering:

    “Are we about to see Stagflation?”
    “What happens to Real Estate during Stagflation?”

    Take Out The Garbage! ;-)

    Not semantics, but specific examples of Schiff being wrong in pretext and logic.
    But I see no refutation or even examples of your vague charges of conflation, amplification, confusion.
    Put up or shut up. Boris.

    Answer your questions? I don’t know the future. Will we see significant stagflation soon? I think it’s possible simply from a cyclical standpoint. Hence part 2 in my post. Cyclical stages meet specific conditions. These conditions may aggravate or mitigate the cyclical factor. I’ve highlighted these for you in questions that even you should be able to answer. Those that I see would tend to minimize, even overcome that issue where the short term housing market is concerned. Prognosis for your dreams is not favorable.

    Now you can answer my question: Has your endless search for bias confirmation on the internet over many years provided you with better than dismal financial results?

  3. 2253
    Eastsider says:

    RE: northender @ 2249 – Wells has plenty of inhouse data and can see the trend. The decision to get out of a previously profitable line of business is not taken lightly. Wells is not in trouble, at least according to the latest stress test result. So the only reasonable explanation is they don’t see any upside in this business going forward. Perhaps people are using the line of credit to buy meme stocks? Perhaps high inflation will be problematic for borrowers to meet their obligations? Banks are tightening rapidly as shown in the size of ON RRP that is approaching and likely to exceed $1T soon. This is definitely not just Wells.

  4. 2254
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Whatsmyname @ 2252 – Stop trolling and adding no value.

  5. 2255
    Whatsmyname says:

    RE: Eastsider @ 2254 – Perhaps your last three years of dispensing the absolute worst possible housing advice would be a better example of no value added.

    Now you are bringing your peculiar analytics to Covid and the banks. All this time trying to be the smartest guy in the room, and you’ve not yet realized that using google will never make you an insider.

  6. 2256
    Erik says:

    RE: Whatsmyname @ 2255
    Hahaha! Ouch!

  7. 2257
    Erik says:

    Biden fired the head of the fhfa so he can give loans to minorities that don’t qualify. This sounds a lot like what happened last boom and bust.

    My guess/hope is a huge boom fueled by bad loans where I sell half my property at the top and own the other half without a mortgage. Then buy as much as possible at the auction when we are at the bottom.

  8. 2258

    RE: ruxpert @ 2248 – This piece sort of touches on that, including the level of bank deposits.

    https://americanconsequences.com/emerging-realities-of-a-post-covid-world-crox/

    What strikes me about all the yet to be passed spending is that it’s being done in lieu of fixing existing programs, like Social Security and Medicare, at a point in time where those programs need fixing. It’s sort of akin to having two teenagers who are going to be entering college in a few years and rather than planning for that, going out and running up credit card debt and buying $90,000 pickups on 7 year loan programs.

  9. 2259
    Eastsider says:

    RE: ruxpert @ 2248 – The only comment I have is that total loans has declined in real term. For example, in the BOA loan chart, current total loan amount is the same as in 2008. Official inflation from 2008 to 2021 is about 26%. So banks are not lending money like they used to. Perhaps low interest rate is inhibiting loan originations. E.g. mortgage loans are now almost exclusively offered by USG because private section can’t offer 30yr loan at negative real interest rate.

  10. 2260
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Whatsmyname @ 2255 – I challenge you to find anyone who saw this ‘truly extraordinary’ (CNBC) rise in home price YoY. Prices can easily double if the Fed decides to go full retard or crash in half if they dare to unwind. No economist or market forecasters can make prediction in such environment. Stock analysts are throwing in the towel on AMC, GME meme stocks because they are no longer based on fundamentals and financials. You are free to ignore my opinions but you obviously still follow them very closely.

  11. 2261
    Whatsmyname says:

    By Eastsider @ 2260:

    RE: Whatsmyname @ 2255 – I challenge you to find anyone who saw this ‘truly extraordinary’ (CNBC) rise in home price YoY. Prices can easily double if the Fed decides to go full retard or crash in half if they dare to unwind. No economist or market forecasters can make prediction in such environment. Stock analysts are throwing in the towel on AMC, GME meme stocks because they are no longer based on fundamentals and financials. You are free to ignore my opinions but you obviously still follow them very closely.

    Are you challenging me to find anyone who predicted this extraordinary price rise? Because I can certainly find many who saw this happen. Me, for one. I have been active in the buy side of the market both years. I’ve been amazed at the difference, as are the people I talk to. Full disclosure:- I avoid Seattle proper; they are too unfriendly to landlords. Second, Redfin algorithms may not be super accurate, but they are fairly consistent – Look at like-properties that sold last year or this year. They have have a history line and a current estimate. I favorite deals that would be good comps for mine, deals I didn’t get, deals I did. Third – Look at the data in the monthly MLS stat reports for King County.

    Fed impact is more on current economy, less on mortgage rates, although there is linkage.

    It is too much to also know the stock market. I use a professional.

  12. 2262

    By Whatsmyname @ 2261:

    Fed impact is more on current economy, less on mortgage rates, although there is linkage.

    Apparently you didn’t understand my abbreviation MBS when I posted the first time today. It’s more than just linkage and a lot of people are asking why, given the real estate market.

    https://news.google.com/search?q=federal%20reserve%20mortgage%20backed%20securities&hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

  13. 2263
    Eastsider says:

    By Whatsmyname @ 2261:

    Are you challenging me to find anyone who predicted this extraordinary price rise? Because I can certainly find many who saw this happen. Me, for one.

    Oh really?! You saw 23.6% YoY increase in median national home price in May. Show us the proof. Now what is your prediction for next year? You are really something.

  14. 2264
    David says:

    I think Wells Fargo canceled personal lines of credit because people were betting the farm on crypto currencies. Meaning there were absolutely no real assets to recover against when things went bust.

    I’ve run across many people implacably deadpanning that their life savings were destroyed because Elon Musk wrote a tweet.

    But I also remember credit lines being canceled during the last housing bust.

    I would still highly recommend getting de-leveraged NOW.

    By Erik @ 2251:

    RE: northender @ 2249
    I believe Wells Fargo froze personal lines of credit to push borrowers into higher risk credit cards, not to deleverage. I’m not sure though, but that’s my hunch. Why offer credit at a lower rate when you can offer it at a higher rate?

  15. 2265
    Whatsmyname says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2262 – They buy MBS at market. And while they may be buying 25% of running mortgage production, it’s a much more reasonable part of the total mortgage outstanding universe. They don’t set the rates. That’s linkage.

  16. 2266
    Whatsmyname says:

    RE: Eastsider @ 2263
    I saw those kind of increases locally.
    And NWMLS June stats for King County are higher, at 29.46%; 37.37% on the Eastside.
    How much more energy should I put into a guy who couldn’t learn a thing in 3 years?

  17. 2267
    Sam says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2241 – Welcome back Kary! Along with Ardell, your rational comments bring some sanity here!

  18. 2268
    Ardell says:

    RE: Whatsmyname @ 2266

    I reported in March or April that Pending sales were going at 30% increases. He scoffed and argued with me that it was more like 12%. Then you reported 30% up from closed Stats in May. Crickets. He just looks for something else to try to be right about. Sometimes I think he,’s a teenager. If he is, then kudos to him. Keeps coming back swinging. :)

  19. 2269
    Erik says:

    RE: David @ 2264
    We are on the same page buddy. I have zero margin right now. Last month I had 100% margin. Since the pandemic started, I’ve been hoarding cash.

    I’m ready to party. My goal is $10k/mo passive income with no debt. Then I can relax.

  20. 2270
  21. 2271

    By Blurtman @ 2270:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 2258:

    RE: ruxpert @ 2248< It's sort of akin to having two teenagers who are going to be entering college in a few years and rather than planning for that, going out and running up credit card debt and buying $90,000 pickups on 7 year loan programs.

    As if that were wrong.

    LOL. You got me!

    Although in my defense, I don’t believe in any $90,000 vehicle, because I hate a lot of the technology that comes with such things. Auto-climate, auto-lifting hatches, push button start, etc. (But not safety stuff like blind-spot detectors, adaptive cruise, etc.)

    Roughly two and a half years ago I bought a new pickup truck, needing a mid-size so I could fit it in the garage and still have room for my 89 Ranger. Brand new LT level trim with a Duramax diesel for under $33,000 after rebates. Those have probably gone up by more than 30% since then. According to Carfax the trade-in value is more than what I paid.

  22. 2272
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Ardell @ 2268
    CS Home Price Index National YoY April = 14.58%
    CS Home Price Index Seattle YoY April = 20.19% (not 30%!)

    The funniest part is you were actively discouraging your clients from buying their homes in the last 2 years. Maybe you should keep to helping your clients buy/sell homes instead of timing the market.

  23. 2273
    Erik says:

    RE: Eastsider @ 2272
    If you want to know about timing, listen to investors. All the investors I follow bought when Covid hit. I didn’t buy because I got a layoff notice at work, my wife was 6 months pregnant, and I didn’t have a lot of cash at the time. I took the forbearance option to keep my family safe during that uncertain time.

    I’m ready for prices to fall now. If prices continue going up, I’d like to only own rentals free and clear, which means I’ll need to sell to pay others off. The market will crash at some point and I want to be as prepared as possible when that happens. Real estate investors make their money during crashes.

  24. 2274

    By Eastsider @ 2272:

    The funniest part is you [Ardell] were actively discouraging your clients from buying their homes in the last 2 years. Maybe you should keep to helping your clients buy/sell homes instead of timing the market.

    I know Ardell has a long history of making bad calls on where the market is headed, but she also works a lot in some areas that have restricted buyer inspections for quite some time. That practice unfortunately has how spread throughout most of King County as well as much of Pierce and Snohomish. Thus we’ve taken to advising buyers to hold off–not due to price–due to terms. This is the email we sent out to our contacts a month and a half ago.

    https://housesender.com//8930/

    So if Ardell was telling people to hold off due to some reason other than price . . ..

    What’s interesting about the higher priced listings having started that practice, if by “interesting” I actually mean stupid, is buyers of higher priced listings have the money and income to sue sellers. The risk to sellers of not allowing an inspection is much greater in higher priced markets.

  25. 2275
    ruxpert says:

    RE: Whatsmyname @ 2252

    dear troll,
    “What happens to Real Estate during Stagflation?”

  26. 2276
    ruxpert says:

    Jul 7, 2021
    Gareth Soloway: Fed Policy to Lead to Stagflation
    https://youtu.be/drwLg7PUa90
    —-
    Economic Catastrophe: The One Major Sign We Can’t Ignore Warns George Gammon
    https://youtu.be/ZyUF2XYpa9M

  27. 2277

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2274

    Market forces prevail…and dictate process. Clearly you are right except…with 15 to 30 offers…do a pre-inspection or waive it. Those are the choices on the table. The “best” choice isn’t always available and literally NONE of the transactions in my realm of reality went Pending subject to Inspection. A seller can’t leave that door open for a price change when deciding with multiple offers. That said, I often do an inspection the day after closing and pay for things the seller should have done if it had been Subject to Inspection that I did not tell the client about in advance of offer. We can both do an inspection Kary, though you likely are too risk averse to do so. I won’t go in a crawlspace or in an attic. It’s not really part of a “showing” to do so.

    I can tell them the same thing an inspector does about a hot water tank because they go by date on the tank. Granted…I had some vision issues (I now have a bionic eye installed) and had to send my new younger partner to go get me the date. Haha! But seriously…makes no difference if I tell them to plan for a new tank or the inspector does it.

    Same as above for furnace. I can generally predict (I know you hate that word) if there is going to be a $250 to $500 repair and I often buy the buyer a warranty if the age of it makes it near or past it’s life expectancy. Same with hot water tank. There’s more than one way to protect a buyer and buying something that will replace the appliance is better than spending the same amount on an inspector who just tells you it’s old…and will need replacing. Yes, I make judgment calls and put my money where my mouth is.

    The best advice of an attorney is likely best advice even when it is impossible to follow the advice. I’d rather clients have best house than best advice and getting a seller to agree to Pending Inspection is most often the worst house they can buy…because nobody else wants it and that is why they could do a “subject to inspection” contingency.

    Almost always my answer to “Should I Buy a House?” is the same as “Should I get married?” No. If you need to ask me because you are not sure or are worried about making a mistake…then don’t do it. I’m not in the business of convincing people to buy houses. Never was. Never will be. They come to me to buy a house. I tell them no based on their personal reasons like “I’m planning to move in 2 years”. Honestly, most often when someone calls me to ask if they “should” buy a house it’s the day before closing…and I am not their agent. I don’t tell them no they shouldn’t, for obvious reasons and I tell them why I can’t tell them to break the contract. This happens more often than you would think. I may give them the pros and cons after telling them I can’t tell them to cancel the contract. But I would never tell them to cancel the day before closing and forfeit their Earnest Money…which is what they are willing to do when they call me. That I had calls like that over the last two years tells you something. I had NO clients of mine want to cancel the day before closing, because they are WELL informed before jumping into the ring. I’d rather be one who predicts than one who has to deal with Buyer Remorse. Buyer Remorse is for other people’s clients…who call me when they are sweating bullets.

    I’ve been in the business of predicting Active Markets both Stock & Bond and Real Estate for over 40 years. You haven’t. We’re just different that way.

    My clients don’t buy a house for a year or two. They are not asking me if the price will be higher or lower next year or within 18 months. They don’t plan to sell it in that short a period of time.

    I follow Prudent Man Rule. I don’t play the right and wrong game. If you jump off the bridge and don’t die, that doesn’t make you right for having jumped off it. My clients are smart people and the bottom line is informed consent. If they have a compelling reason to buy in the midst of crazy chaos in the markets…they do.

    As to sellers, I recommend selling to my clients who now have a $500,000 gain as a married couple who bought a house with me several years ago. I don’t trust the exemption to stick and every dollar they gain over $500,000 gain mark is subject to tax. If they start a new gain tally on a different house…they get an additional $500,000 exemption and put the gain into the next house or in their pocket. Whether they buy or rent after taking their $500,000 gain is different for each person. Some wait. Some don’t. Some buy in a cheaper area. Right now there is no limit to the number of times someone can take that $500,000 exemption….go start a new one. Why not? Same as buyers they will stay and not sell if they have a compelling reason to do so. That’s their prerogative.

    It’s not a right and wrong game…and I beg to differ as to my “right” column. If I haven’t been almost always right I wouldn’t still be doing this for 40 plus years. Solid decisions is not about FOMO, it’s about making wise choices…doing what a prudent man would do. Sorry for the sexism…it’s just the name of the Rule. :)

  28. 2278
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2274 – A few are now claiming these price increases are totally expected, and disparage anyone who thinks current prices are ‘truly extraordinary’ (CNBC).

    UST 10yr yield is now under 1.2%. That is another ‘truly extraordinary’ move when inflation is running at 5%-10%. Well, someone is going to claim they totally predicted it…

  29. 2279

    By ARDELL DellaLoggia @ 2277:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2274

    Market forces prevail…and dictate process. Clearly you are right except…with 15 to 30 offers…do a pre-inspection or waive it. Those are the choices on the table.

    No, there’s a third choice–put in an inspection contingency. There’s a fourth choice–wait for the market to change.

    The market forces in a strong sellers’ market are much more evil than the market forces in a strong buyers’ market.

    A seller can’t leave that door open for a price change when deciding with multiple offers.

    Yeah, a $5,000 reduction in price can ruin your whole half-hour when you’re getting six figures over your list price. In contrast, a lawsuit will ruin the next 6 to 72 months of your life.

    We can both do an inspection Kary, though you likely are too risk averse to do so. I won’t go in a crawlspace or in an attic. It’s not really part of a “showing” to do so.

    I can tell them the same thing an inspector does about a hot water tank because they go by date on the tank. Granted…I had some vision issues (I now have a bionic eye installed) and had to send my new younger partner to go get me the date. Haha! But seriously…makes no difference if I tell them to plan for a new tank or the inspector does it.

    Same as above for furnace.

    You cannot do an “inspection” without risking your real estate license. But in any case, I’m not worried about small ticket items like water heaters and furnaces. People don’t tend to sue over such small ticket items.

    It’s not a right and wrong game…and I beg to differ as to my “right” column. If I haven’t been almost always right I wouldn’t still be doing this for 40 plus years

    That has nothing to do with how long you’ve been doing anything. Lots of people have been doing things they are bad at for decades. I took the post at face value that you’ve been telling people not to buy for two years now, and I tried to give you an out. But in any case here’s a 2010 post that shows your history of not being right.

    https://seattlebubble.com/blog/2010/10/26/case-shiller-seattles-home-price-double-dip-begins/comment-page-1/#comment-113959

  30. 2280

    To be clear, I’m not saying sellers should allow an inspection–that’s a complex fact based decision dependent on many circumstances. What I am saying is there are incredible legal benefits to sellers from allowing inspections, and on the other side, the risks to buyers of not doing an inspection are significant. Suing a seller and winning over an unknown expensive condition just puts the buyer back at even, assuming they collect their attorney fees.

    Here’s an excerpt from something I’ve written, showing the results of three cases where the seller would have likely lost absent the buyer having an inspection (the third one the seller prevailed on summary judgment, which probably wouldn’t have occurred without the inspection):

    Alejandre v. Bull involved a defective septic system on a house. The problems were quickly discovered and the buyers spent over $30,000 connecting to sewer. Despite some evidence the seller knew of the defects, the seller prevailed at the Supreme Court level and was awarded attorney fees. The result was largely due to the buyers having had inspection rights.
    Douglas v. Visser involved a house with extensive wood rot and mold conditions where the trial court found the seller concealed defects. The conditions were so severe the entire house was torn down. The buyer’s inspector had found evidence of defects, but the buyers did not follow up with necessary questioning. Six years after the purchase the Appellate Court decided that the buyers could not recover, and awarded the seller attorney fees.
    In an unreported Superior Court case a buyer bought a house from a flipper, and later discovered water issues in the basement. The buyer’s inspection report had made note of possible issues. The buyer’s suit was dismissed on summary judgment, with the seller citing both Alejandre and Visser. The seller was awarded over $13,000 in attorney fees.

    I would submit that many sellers are not properly advised as to what to do regarding inspections, in part because the listing agent’s job is a lot easier without an inspection contingency.

  31. 2281

    And finally . . .

    By ARDELL DellaLoggia @ 2277:

    That said, I often do an inspection the day after closing and pay for things the seller should have done if it had been Subject to Inspection that I did not tell the client about in advance of offer.

    The post-closing buyer inspection is an excellent practice, and one I’ve seen inspectors advertise. It can find major items (bigger than furnaces or water heaters) and eliminates any possibility of a statute of limitations defense by the seller. And if the buyer goes ahead and fixes the condition the seller will not be able to get an expert witnesses opinion in as to condition because the materials will all be at the waste dump. The buyer on the other had will probably have three bids from experts saying the work needed to be done.

    In contrast, if the buyer inspection occurs pre-closing, the seller can investigate, look at options and also have the power to just say no.

  32. 2282
    Whatsmyname says:

    By Eastsider @ 2278:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2274 – A few are now claiming these price increases are totally expected, and disparage anyone who thinks current prices are ‘truly extraordinary’ (CNBC).

    UST 10yr yield is now under 1.2%. That is another ‘truly extraordinary’ move when inflation is running at 5%-10%. Well, someone is going to claim they totally predicted it…

    I don’t think anyone claims predicting prices changes at this level, totally or otherwise.
    I don’t know of anyone who does not think the price changes are truly extraordinary.
    Not an honest way to report that others can see the changes occur, while you deny them
    In fact, you are the only person I’ve seen disparage the CNBC “truly extraordinary” numbers.

    Most people think of YOY changes on a raw price basis, not on an inflation adjusted index.
    It makes your use of CS numbers a little sleazy, and certainly doesn’t invalidate other sources.
    Also, I don’t think CS runs numbers on sales pending, which is what Ardell said she used in April.
    The end of May 30% I posted are for closed sales – those lag pendings, and logically follow.

    Keep digging.

  33. 2283
    Whatsmyname says:

    By ruxpert @ 2275:

    RE: Whatsmyname @ 2252

    dear troll,
    “What happens to Real Estate during Stagflation?”

    I can’t answer any more questions for you until you answer this one:

    Has your endless search for bias confirmation on the internet over many years provided you with better than dismal financial results?

  34. 2284

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2281

    Kary…your mileage may vary. An inspection doesn’t give the seller the right to say no when the buyer wants to cancel on inspection. You may want to read the form. You can’t use the escalators on dead contracts after the fact and cancelled on inspection carries a stigma.

    You should have a disclaimer that you are an attorney and yes, an attorney would speak as you do. But your saying a buyer can get an inspection contingency or wait for a different market…same as saying don’t buy a decent house or don’t buy at all. You are just cloaking the same advice in legalese thinking.

    If that makes you feel more “right”…go for it. I tend to stay in the realm of reality.

  35. 2285
    S-Crow says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2281 -This is interesting to me. “……eliminates any possibility of a statute of limitations defense by the seller. ” I don’t think I’m understanding this. Can you elaborate? For example, “post-closing” could mean anything. The day after ownership transfers to months down the road. How would that eliminate a sellers defense of statute of limitations? There has to be a limit, no?

  36. 2286

    RE: Whatsmyname @ 2282

    CS includes Pierce County. I think I went there once to see James Taylor at the Puyallup County Fair. 2009 I think. I never include Pierce County in much of anything. :) Don’t count too far north in Snohomish either and usually leave Snohomish out entirely when tracking the market.

    I think it’s a little odd that the media is blaming the market’s recent dead cat bounce on the variant. As if the non-variant hurt the markets…not. Watch the DOW. Doesn’t want to crack 35,000 and bounced twice recently below 34,000. I’ll be on vacation for a couple of weeks starting Wednesday…but I’ll be watching. Yes…I’m still bearish. :)

  37. 2287
    Erik says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2281
    Hello Kary. I would like to continue renting out one of my condos I bought at the auction, but the HOA is telling me that there is 3 year limit on how long I can rent out my condo. I never got the cc&r’s because I bought it at an auction and the hoa said I could rent the unit out. The 3 year restriction is an amendment, but I don’t know when the amendment was enacted.

    How should I approach this? Do you know of any good attorneys that can fix this for me so I can continue renting it out? Since I bought it as a foreclosure am I grandfathered in?

    I was thinking of ordering the cc&r’s and sending them to an attorney. Could you suggest a budget friendly attorney that would take this on?

  38. 2288
    David says:

    https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=64.34

    I’ve never heard of buying CCRs. SHouldnt they just give them to you?

    RE: Erik @ 2287

  39. 2289
    David says:

    I’m not giving any legal advice, but here is a case you can read and begin to draw your own conclusions.

    https://public.fastcase.com/J%2fJP6pdidelsXxEE4k%2bLMtf2%2fj9EcMLBwPMLSd9T5e5v89XmTvZopiOpOquadxedjRxgsHEpfZK196LK9302BA%3d%3d

    RE: Erik @ 2287

  40. 2290
    ruxpert says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2258

    Ya, seems like corruption / manufactured crisis / looting, etc.

    ‘Crisis of Epic Proportion’ ?
    The Pension Gamble (full documentary) | FRONTLINE
    https://youtu.be/_r0htm5uHPQ
    and what if it’s even more serious than that,
    that in fact they don’t care if they bring-down the system,
    as they will make money long or short.
    Pump & Dump, here comes the planned credit crunch?
    How do we know, why do we think we know that there is some conspiracy theory that they’re true interest is For USA / Americans per se
    Or instead they’re Great Reset?

    Even Taibbi’s getting worried again ;-)
    Impending Financial Crisis 2.0? Matt Taibbi Hears Echoes Of 2008
    Jul 14, 2021
    https://youtu.be/xr5bvPMmGwE
    ===

  41. 2291
    ruxpert says:

    RE: Eastsider @ 2259

    Good points. Thanks.
    I will take such under advisement as I plod on trying to grok this, Spock ;-)

    btw, you might find this interesting?:
    Clip of Lawyer who is Suing
    Lawyer files lawsuit against US government for 45,000 vaccine deaths.
    https://www.brighteon.com/7f42ebae-7d62-4718-8460-619b977e505c

  42. 2292
    Erik says:

    RE: David @ 2288
    I’ve always had to buy them in Kirkland/Seattle. If you buy with a real estate agent, your agent makes sure you get them. At the auction, that step is skipped.

    The amendment to limit rentals to 3 years was passed in 2011 and I bought it at the auction in 2017. I’ll read that case study you sent me. Thanks.

  43. 2293

    By ARDELL DellaLoggia @ 2284:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2281

    Kary…your mileage may vary. An inspection doesn’t give the seller the right to say no when the buyer wants to cancel on inspection. You may want to read the form. You can’t use the escalators on dead contracts after the fact and cancelled on inspection carries a stigma.

    You should have a disclaimer that you are an attorney and yes, an attorney would speak as you do. But your saying a buyer can get an inspection contingency or wait for a different market…same as saying don’t buy a decent house or don’t buy at all. You are just cloaking the same advice in legalese thinking.

    If that makes you feel more “right”…go for it. I tend to stay in the realm of reality.

    I don’t need a disclaimer to say buyers and sellers have options, and that is reality.

    Sellers should be advised of their options and not just be falsely lead to believe that not allowing an inspection is a good thing. At the same time they should be advised of the risks of inspection (basically the buyer options and the fact that they may learn of things that may need to be disclosed if the buyer does back out). And while a broker advising a client to seek legal advice in writing is always prudent, if a seller is inclined to accept an offer without an inspection contingency, that would be absolutely necessary, IMHO.

    Buyers should be advised that they have options too, including the option of waiting until we’re in a market that has significantly more than a half-month of active inventory, probably half of which are crap listings.

    What shouldn’t happen is having brokers not properly advise their clients either to make their jobs easier or to fund their lifestyle.

  44. 2294

    By S-Crow @ 2285:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2281 -This is interesting to me. “……eliminates any possibility of a statute of limitations defense by the seller. ” I don’t think I’m understanding this. Can you elaborate? For example, “post-closing” could mean anything. The day after ownership transfers to months down the road. How would that eliminate a sellers defense of statute of limitations? There has to be a limit, no?

    What I mean by that is there are few if any causes of action that need to be brought in less than two or three years. If a buyer does an inspection shortly after closing they will have plenty of time to bring an action. In contrast, if say the support posts are rotting in the crawlspace, the statute of limitations might expire before they learn of the problem (although there are some discovery issues that delay the running of statutes of limitations). Doing a post-closing inspection will reduce the chance of that occurring because the condition of the posts presumably would be discovered within 30 days.

    We sort of saw some of this when houses bought at short sale came back on the market after. There the buyers may or may not have done an inspection, but repairs were very unlikely to have been made by the seller. Often the buyers didn’t bother even if they knew of the conditions, so the house would inspect poorly on resale. The resales after this market will likely be similar, except that the sellers will be less likely to have known of the condition because no inspection was done (or a lousy seller inspection was done).

  45. 2295

    RE: Erik @ 2287 – The only legal advice I’m willing to give is that buying at auction doesn’t give you an out from CCRs and R&Rs, as far as I know. If you want an attorney referral I don’t know of any that are necessarily budget friendly, but if you email me (see address in the client email I linked yesterday) I could try to find you some names familiar with the issue. Being familiar would reduce the cost considerably.

    As I recall there was a case 5-10 years ago that made amending CCRs more difficult, but also gave owners a limited time to complain.[Edit: I believe the case David linked is the case, but I’m not sure that deals with the time limits issue.] So your situation may be time critical depending on when the rule was enacted.

  46. 2296

    By David @ 2288:

    https://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=64.34

    I’ve never heard of buying CCRs. SHouldnt they just give them to you?

    RE: Erik @ 2287

    I don’t know if you’re talking about the Resale Certificate, but that is typically paid for by the seller and includes the CCRs and more. That is not part of the process for a foreclosure sale. And technically if not given by the time of closing, is no longer applicable AFAIK, similar to the Seller Disclosure Statement (Form 17).

  47. 2297

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2293

    The sellers options present themselves in the form of offers. Sellers don’t dictate “no inspection contingency”. Are you suggesting if they have 20 offers, none of which have an inspection contingency, that they counter a great offer that is $300,000 over asking by ADDING an inspection contingency?

  48. 2298

    By ARDELL DellaLoggia @ 2297:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2293

    The sellers options present themselves in the form of offers. Sellers don’t dictate “no inspection contingency”. Are you suggesting if they have 20 offers, none of which have an inspection contingency, that they counter a great offer that is $300,000 over asking by ADDING an inspection contingency?

    My offer instructions often state the seller preference on inspection contingencies (and almost always say pre-inspections not allowed), but even where it says “inspections encouraged” buyer offers don’t always include an inspection contingency. And countering an offer is always risky, because that eliminates the existing offer and the other offers may lapse or go away. But yes, I have had sellers counter to add an inspection contingency.

    None of that though is a point I am trying to make. My first point is that many sellers are not being properly advised. My second point is that many buyer’s agents are not including an inspection contingency not to benefit their client as much as to make it more likely they will earn a commission. My conclusion is that agents are largely driving this situation by not properly advising or properly representing their clients.

  49. 2299

    This is a 4 year old video from Washington Realtors, which is sort of a welcome to my world video for the non-agent viewers of this site. It’s part of their Greedy Sellers/Overeager Buyer series from a market that was much better than today’s.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esd0eLwkBRo&ab_channel=WashingtonREALTORS

    I was sort of unintentionally responsible for the “Monkey See, Monkey Do” title when I gave Annie another way to explain the second topic covered starting at the 2 minute mark. Also for S-Crow, it sort of is another statute of limitations issue. But for Paragraph w, which many buyer’s agents strike, the buyer probably has at least 2-3 years to sue over a listing misrepresentation. With it they arguable have only 10 days from mutual acceptance to act.

  50. 2300

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2298

    You are not in a room with sellers and their agents to know how sellers are “advised”. Personally I treat the buyer side with the dignity and respect they deserve. I don’t give them instructions. In fact I think a seller giving a buyer an instruction form that suggests non-refundable Earnest Money and a huge list of buyer unfriendly and risky terms is a bad move. When the agent for the seller, I don’t give buyers “instructions” as to how they and their agents should proceed. I stay on my side of the fence.

    Treating people like they are babies and idiots who need “instructions” holds more liability for a seller than a buyer, of their own volition and without being encouraged to do so, waiving inspection. No seller should suggest what a buyer should do in their offer. Stand back and see what you get and make your own decisions and not theirs. Whether or not a buyer should do an inspection is the buyer’s decision, not the sellers. A seller can decide if they want to do an inspection. A buyer decides for themselves and the seller reviews the offers as presented.

    If you truly believed it benefits the seller you still wouldn’t be telling other agents’ buyer clients what to do. You would be having your client, the seller, counter with an Inspection Contingency added. So you don’t really believe it. You just want to tell other people’s clients what to do and not your own.

  51. 2301
    Erik says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2295
    Thanks Kary. I hate to have to sell. I wanted to hold this one forever.

  52. 2302

    By ARDELL DellaLoggia @ 2300:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2298

    You are not in a room with sellers and their agents to know how sellers are “advised”.

    Correct, but I do know what percentage are going without inspection contingencies and I do talk to people who have sold without one and have not been properly advised.

    Personally I treat the buyer side with the dignity and respect they deserve. I don’t give them instructions.

    Agents should not be giving them instructions. You should be giving them advice. They are an agent, not dictators. So we agree.

    In fact I think a seller giving a buyer an instruction form that suggests non-refundable Earnest Money and a huge list of buyer unfriendly and risky terms is a bad move. When the agent for the seller, I don’t give buyers “instructions” as to how they and their agents should proceed. I stay on my side of the fence.

    I would agree. I go so far as to discuss the offer instructions with sellers and have the seller initial the final version.

    A few months ago there was a listing agent where virtually every seller of his was asking for a 3 day delay in possession. I really doubt that was seller driven, and with an eviction moratorium in place it undoubtedly reduced the number of offers received. The agent was giving instructions and not advising his clients.

    Treating people like they are babies and idiots who need “instructions” holds more liability for a seller than a buyer, of their own volition and without being encouraged to do so, waiving inspection. No seller should suggest what a buyer should do in their offer. Stand back and see what you get and make your own decisions and not theirs. Whether or not a buyer should do an inspection is the buyer’s decision, not the sellers. A seller can decide if they want to do an inspection. A buyer decides for themselves and the seller reviews the offers as presented.

    This is 100% wrong, other than not liking instructions. If a seller is more likely to be sued without an inspection contingency it is their decision what offers should look like. And by including offer instructions that give buyers some idea of what the offers they want should contain it makes it more likely that the seller can accept an offer without a counteroffer.

    I guess in your world you would say that a seller shouldn’t let buyers know that they don’t want to close until at least 45 days out. They should just let offers come in and then counter with a new closing date. Personally I find out what sellers want and then put as much of that as possible in the offer instructions. If representing a buyer I’ll ask the listing agent what the seller might be looking for before making an offer.

    As to the “idiots” comment, not many sellers know about Alejandre v. Bull or Douglas v. Visser. Not knowing that is not being an idiot, it’s just note being familiar with caselaw very favorable to sellers.

  53. 2303

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2302

    You advise your clients; they advise theirs. If you want an Inspection Contingency you add one from your side of the fence. Simple as that. If you don’t add one…it’s on you, not them. How many times did a seller agree to the wording that buyers can and should include an Inspection Contingency only to later take the one offer that didn’t have one? Many. Stay on your side of the fence.

    In fact if you really wanted an Inspection Contingency you would upload it with the listing and make it mandatory. Not a suggestion in instructions. Giving buyers the dignity of their side is something that will continue to be reinforced over the years. We are no longer in the days when a seller dictates to the buyers or the sellers’ agents dictate to the buyer’s agent. I know you like to be overly intrusive on the buyer side, like calling all the lenders of all the offers. I don’t stick my nose in the buyer’s personal business unnecessarily when I am the agent for the seller and not the buyer. It’s the right thing to do and market conditions prevail. When 95% of offers have no Inspection Contingency…well, that becomes the harsh reality and there are many, many ways for both sides to protect themselves.

    If the Inspection Contingency didn’t allow a buyer to cancel or change the price without good reason, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. 31 years ago the Home Inspection said the Buyer could cancel if the repairs cost more than X dollars. Some buyers said $500 and some buyers said $10,000. Get a better Inspection Contingency form and you’ll see more inspections. Blanket right to cancel or change the price is the problem. Fix that.

  54. 2304

    By ARDELL DellaLoggia @ 2303:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2302 – In fact if you really wanted an Inspection Contingency you would upload it with the listing and make it mandatory.

    LOL. That would effectively be an offer instruction, and have no more effect that simply putting that in an offer instruction.

    This topic does not only pertain to inspections. I guess in your world offer instructions shouldn’t mention to agents not crossing off Form 21 paragraph W, or not mentioning that the seller doesn’t want an escalation addendum. The seller’s goal though is to get offers they can accept without a counteroffer. Your process is counter to that goal.

    As to your point though I did once have a buyer’s agent knowing the seller wanted an inspection submit an offer which contained two Form 35s, one of which waived inspection (as the form provided back then). The seller was able to pick whichever addendum they wanted as part of accepting the offer. I thought that was a rather interesting tactic. It would have given them a leg up if the seller changed their mind (or if the inspection request was something requested by the listing agent, not the seller).

    We are no longer in the days when a seller dictates to the buyers or the sellers’ agents dictate to the buyer’s agent.

    Earth to Ardell: We’re in a strong seller’s market. ROTFLMAO

    I know you like to be overly intrusive on the buyer side, like calling all the lenders of all the offers. I don’t stick my nose in the buyer’s personal business unnecessarily when I am the agent for the seller and not the buyer.

    Since I call lenders too I assume you’re talking about the due diligence I do to check out the buyers. Your position is that I shouldn’t do due diligence, and simply let my client accept an offer where the buyer has an outstanding judgment that the lender doesn’t know about. That happened, and if I had not done my due diligence my seller would have only learned about it when the preliminary commitment came back with the buyer’s information added. Their property would have been off the market for a week. Oh and news flash–judgments are not something subject to privacy, nor do they raise Fair Housing concerns. Not checking for such things is lazy.

    If the Inspection Contingency didn’t allow a buyer to cancel or change the price without good reason, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. 31 years ago the Home Inspection said the Buyer could cancel if the repairs cost more than X dollars. Some buyers said $500 and some buyers said $10,000. Get a better Inspection Contingency form and you’ll see more inspections. Blanket right to cancel or change the price is the problem. Fix that.

    Making a buyer find a reason to back out on an inspection is not a good thing for sellers because they will make up a reason. Then the seller has to disprove those reasons when they move on to find other buyers. This is related to the reason for the recent change that buyers can no longer give inspection reports to sellers without waiving their inspection contingency. In both cases there’s also the possibility that the inspector may be wrong. Sellers don’t need that.

    Yes buyer’s remorse is a serious concern for sellers, particularly when they’re bidding 20% over list. But it’s better to find a new buyer unimpeded by new information be it correct, incorrect or totally manufactured.

  55. 2305
    ARDELL Della Loggia says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2304

    You do know the buyer doesn’t have to use that Pre-Approval lender. ;) Calling all 25 lenders is intrusive and unnecessary.

    Mostly I’ve enjoyed sparring with you a bit. You’ve been missed.

  56. 2306

    By ARDELL DellaLoggia @ 2303:

    We are no longer in the days when a seller dictates to the buyers or the sellers’ agents dictate to the buyer’s agent.

    This political cartoon could be altered, making Seattle sellers Trump and Seattle buyers McCarthy, the difference being Seattle sellers are more powerful than Trump. ;-)

    https://www.gocomics.com/robert-ariail/2021/07/19

  57. 2307

    By ARDELL Della Loggia @ 2305:

    You do know the buyer doesn’t have to use that Pre-Approval lender. ;) Calling all 25 lenders is intrusive and unnecessary.

    Yes, not being required to use that lender is a problem, but I don’t recall a situation where that actually happened out of the gate. Also the concern is not only about the lender per se, but also the validity of the approval letter–finding out what’s been done to issue the letter. If a lot was done by a good loan originator to get the buyer approved, presumably even a bad loan originator could get the loan done, maybe. But if not enough was done, then the letter is meaningless.

    But hey, if a lender doesn’t want to talk, and finds it intrusive, that’s fine, but not really good for their client.

    On a positive note the financing contingency form (22A) has been greatly improved this year. They got rid of that stupid thing where you could contact the lender 10 days after mutual acceptance, which was 11 days too late, and added in permission to contact the lender “any time before closing.” They also added a new option to have the financing contingency expire automatically after a (default) 21 day period, rather than extending through closing. What they didn’t do is fix the definition/deadline for applying for financing, which makes it largely meaningless.

    Mostly I’ve enjoyed sparring with you a bit. You’ve been missed.

    Thank you. I’ve been avoiding most forms of social media, the main exception being commenting some times one site devoted to driving laws, oddly.

  58. 2308
    uwp says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 2307:

    By ARDELL Della Loggia @ 2305:

    Mostly I’ve enjoyed sparring with you a bit. You’ve been missed.

    Thank you. I’ve been avoiding most forms of social media, the main exception being commenting some times one site devoted to driving laws, oddly.

    Please never leave us again Kary. We were stuck in Covid hell.

    This has been an interesting discussion. I think I side with Kary on the facts, but I understand the “if you really want to buy a house right now, you do what you have to” mentality of Ardell. Feel more lucky every day that we traded up at the end of 2019 during that brief respite from the insanity.

  59. 2309
    David says:

    Good time to take the equity and and pay into the black on the others. Hopefully you lived in the condo in 2 of the last 5 years.

    By Erik @ 2301:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2295
    Thanks Kary. I hate to have to sell. I wanted to hold this one forever.

  60. 2310
    S-Crow says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2307 – you mentioned: “Also the concern is not only about the lender per se, but also the validity of the approval letter–finding out what’s been done to issue the letter. If a lot was done by a good loan originator to get the buyer approved, presumably even a bad loan originator could get the loan done, maybe. But if not enough was done, then the letter is meaningless.”

    And, early on after starting our small escrow biz, I was completely surprised how bad processing could be, especially with major banks. I had no idea going in. In many cases I have found how completely useless pre-approval letters are. Escrow knows very closely what is going on.

    If we sell a property I don’t know if I should just play dumb to my own demise or just crucify a buyers agent with progression facts when I smell BS.

  61. 2311

    By uwp @ 2308:

    Please never leave us again Kary. We were stuck in Covid hell.

    Ironically it’s due to Covid I’m back. We don’t take occupied listings, tried starting in April to take three months off on buyers and listings due to market conditions but had existing matters to deal with which made that almost meaningless, and have still been advising buyers to hold off. More on that below.

    This has been an interesting discussion. I think I side with Kary on the facts, but I understand the “if you really want to buy a house right now, you do what you have to” mentality of Ardell.

    I’m viewing this more from the agent side, and not blaming the buyers for making offers without inspections. I do question why they think they cannot wait, but if that’s what buyers feel they need to do, they can do that. I’m blaming the agents, particularly the North of I-90/East of Lake Washington agents, which started it all years ago. (That’s somewhat of an inside joke.) Yes, if you want to buy in many areas and on many properties you need to waive inspection.

    Most of the buyers we’ve advised to hold off have followed our advice. One came to me who was a prior client and indicated that they contacted me because they knew I would put their interests ahead of my own and tell them whether it was a good time to look. Only two haven’t followed our advice, and one I didn’t expect to since they had already started looking. I basically terminated representation of that buyer because I was very uncomfortable making offers without inspection, was having sleepless nights while the offers were outstanding, and thought it probably not in the client’s best interest that their agent be relieved every time their offer without an inspection contingency was not accepted.

    Note again I don’t blame the buyer’s agents who make the offers without inspection contingencies, except to the extent they are doing so as a result of putting their financial needs ahead of their clients’ interests. I do blame the listing agents IF they are not properly advising their seller clients.

  62. 2312

    By S-Crow @ 2310:

    And, early on after starting our small escrow biz, I was completely surprised how bad processing could be, especially with major banks. I had no idea going in. In many cases I have found how completely useless pre-approval letters are. Escrow knows very closely what is going on.

    We generally recommend that a buyer go with a lender we have familiarity with. That the buyer or their friends and family have done loans in the past with the lender doesn’t really matter, particularly if those were refinances which are not time-critical.

    If buyer’s agents stay in touch with an unknown lender they too can often get an idea that something is up. I can think of two situations where the buyer’s lender was feeding the client lines of crap that just didn’t make sense and we managed to step in and salvage the situation, although each required a slight extension. The second situation an extension was only necessary because it took some time for us to convince the buyer that their lender didn’t know what they were doing (a fact admitted by higher ups at the lending institution).

  63. 2313
    Eastsider says:

    RE: ruxpert @ 2291

    Here is the news article on the lawsuit. Not from MSM – not sure if MSM will cover it. But America’s Frontline Doctors is legit.

    Federal Lawsuit Seeks Immediate Halt of COVID Vaccines, Cites Whistleblower Testimony Claiming CDC Is Under-Counting Vaccine Deaths
    https://childrenshealthdefense.org/defender/americas-frontline-doctors-federal-lawsuit-halt-covid-vaccines-cdc-vaccine-deaths/

    Here is the whistleblower’s declaration – https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/3c6a0774-cfad-46fa-aa97-af5aa5e74f00/Jane%20Doe%20Declaration.pdf

    Vaccine deaths is becoming an emergency by itself. Read my next comment.

  64. 2314
    Eastsider says:

    5,522 people have died within 28 days of having a Covid-19 Vaccine in Scotland according to Public Health Scotland
    https://dailyexpose.co.uk/2021/07/18/5522-people-have-died-within-28-days-of-having-a-covid-19-vaccine-in-scotland-according-to-public-health-scotland/

    Scotland has a population of 5.5m. Let that sink in.

    The 5,522 deaths occurred in six months from 12/8/2020 to 6/11/2021. The equivalent US death toll in that six month period would be 150k based on the Scotland data.

    The 5,522 number came from Scotland Public Health website. You can download the excel spreadsheet here to verify the data.
    https://publichealthscotland.scot/publications/covid-19-statistical-report/covid-19-statistical-report-23-june-2021/

  65. 2315
    don says:

    RE: Eastsider @ 2314

    Captaindaretofly is a busy boy.

    Are you on the same ruble payroll as Ruxy?

  66. 2316

    RE: Eastsider @ 2313 – Okay, having access to the court record this is too funny to ignore.

    There were 8 attorneys who signed the motion, apparently attempting to follow in the footsteps of Rudy Guiliani. Only four indicated that they were with a firm, and two of those firms having only the last name of the attorney. Only three have a law firm email address, one of which is the signor’s name with law.com added, the rest being gmail, yahoo, etc.

    But then there’s their legal arguments, where hopefully they didn’t start with their strongest arguments.

    1. There is no emergency.
    2. There is no serious or life-threatening disease.
    3. The vaccines do not prevent Covid-19.

    Then there’s the declaration Eastsider linked, from the highly respected and well known Jane Doe, who has a degree in mathematics! But hey, at least it is a B.S. degree!

    Oh, and there’s the fact that a motion for an injunction was previously denied in the same case.

    You guys really have been in Covid-19 hell if that’s representative of what’s been being posted here.

    That said, the press really hasn’t been good at reporting statistics, because they don’t understand statistics. So it is hard to get a handle on these things. FWIW, I tend to be skeptical of vaccines, thinking there are way to many given for way too many things, but that some are worth getting. But when it comes to the Covid-19 vaccines peoples’ thinking seems to be much like their thinking on Global Warming–based on little more than their politics.

  67. 2317
    Eastsider says:

    To save everyone the trouble, here is the motion for preliminary injunction –

    https://americasfrontlinedoctors.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/M-for-PI-file-stamped-1.pdf

    “AFLDS is asking to immediately stop administration of experimental COVID vaccines in anyone 18 and younger, all those who have recovered from COVID and acquired natural immunity, and every other American who has not received informed consent as defined by federal law.”

    For the above group, children and people with natural immunity, the following are factually true.

    1. There is no emergency.
    2. There is no serious or life-threatening disease.
    3. The vaccines do not prevent Covid-19.

    Many countries do not mandate children to take the C19 vaccines. Flu has a higher mortality than Covid among children.

    For someone who practices law, he should know better that Jane Doe is used in many court filings. The most famous one being Roe v Wade. I will not respond further.

  68. 2318

    By Eastsider @ 2317:

    “AFLDS is asking to immediately stop administration of experimental COVID vaccines in anyone 18 and younger, all those who have recovered from COVID and acquired natural immunity, and every other American who has not received informed consent as defined by federal law.”

    For the above group, children and people with natural immunity, the following are factually true.

    1. There is no emergency.
    2. There is no serious or life-threatening disease.
    3. The vaccines do not prevent Covid-19.

    Wrong. You can still get Covid-19 even if you’re young or you’ve been previously infected. The vaccines provide better relief. It can still be serious and life threatening. And the vaccines reduce the chance of infection–few if any vaccines are 100% effective.

    For someone who practices law, he should know better that Jane Doe is used in many court filings. The most famous one being Roe v Wade. I will not respond further.

    Not as expert witnesses (ignoring the obvious lack of demonstration of qualification).

    If you want to focus on something, how about the Washington State Department of Health reporting 45 breakthrough deaths in the state. Now the median age was 86 and most were in long term care facilities, had other conditions, etc., but that’s a lot different than what’s being reported in most of the mainstream press.

    https://www.doh.wa.gov/Portals/1/Documents/1600/coronavirus/data-tables/420-339-VaccineBreakthroughReport.pdf

    See page 8.

    BTW, I’d also mention that a lot of the stats out of Europe and Britton on complications include the Astro-Z vaccine.

  69. 2319

    Returning to real estate, has their been any discussion of the disgusting way landlords have been treated? Tenants are protected from eviction based on a Covid-19 emergency even if the tenant has not been in any way impacted by Covid-19, or even had any reduction in their income. In fact, with the various government benefits ($600 a week extra unemployment and the various stimulus payments) their income could have actually increased. And this blanket protection is provided regardless of the harm it is causing the landlord.

    Here’s the latest twist in a case that just came down. Landlord proceeded to evict based on the 60 day sale provisions and obtained an order of restitution. After the order was entered Inslee issued a new order requiring that the supporting documents in support of a 60 day notice be in the form of a sworn affidavit, not just a declaration. Tenant went to the Superior Court to get the order to the Sheriff lifted, the Superior Court refused and issued CR 11 sanctions for the motion. Tenant appealed, possibly due to the sanctions order, and prevailed on appeal!

    https://www.courts.wa.gov/opinions/pdf/D2%2055460-7-II%20Published%20Opinion.pdf

    These types of cases are typical. Courts have not been providing any protection to landlords regardless of the facts. Contract rights have become meaningless. Property rights have become meaningless (–the new Landlord-Tenant laws greatly restrict the right of landlords to ever terminate a tenancy).

    On the bright side for home buyers, only fools would want to become new landlords, so that should increase the supply of houses for sale. It will also increase the rents for those who are landlords, because there will be less supply.

    Returning to Inslee, his orders have hardly been well thought out, but there is no reason whatsoever for the change from a declaration to an affidavit for that 60 day notice provision. More recently he issued a burn order which excluded charcoal grills, but not gas grills (but did exclude gas stoves). Not a lot of time is being spent drafting.

  70. 2320
    Eastsider says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 2318:

    Wrong. You can still get Covid-19 even if you’re young or you’ve been previously infected.

    AFLDS did not make any such statement. WHO also advises against Covid vaccination for children. See my earlier comment 2010 on WHO position on this matter.

    UK and Israel, both with highly vaccinated population, are experiencing an exponential rise in Covid-19 cases. Breakthrough cases are very common. (The numbers I have seen from Israel indicate same infection rate among vaccinated and unvaccinated population*. Unverified but we will find out soon…)

    If my data / source is wrong, feel free to point them out.

  71. 2321
    David says:

    I did have something weird happen not long after the second Pfizer shot. One morning my right leg became tight, weak and hard to move. The following day my left leg did the same thing and I could barely move around for about 3 days. It was very strange. I cannot say for sure what was happening. It went away. Causation?

    Maybe I accidentally licked a Cane Toad.

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2318

  72. 2322

    RE: Eastsider @ 2320 – I’m not sure what statement you’re referring to, as to WHO fortunately the US government doesn’t need to listen to it. But in any case the CDC only allows children down to 12 to be vaccinated, and that change was fairly recent and in any case not a huge difference from WHO.

    Israel isn’t that vaccinated, only about 60%. I’ve seen nothing indicating their break through rate is greater than ours, and apparently all you have is “unverified” data, probably from sources similar to that lawsuit which seemingly wants to somehow “protect” people largely not being forced to get vaccinated at the expense of people who want to become vaccinated.

    What would be interesting is if that Washington State data broke the breakthrough cases down by vaccine type. The J&J was never claimed to be as effective and is apparently less effective against type D. Lots of data is still incomplete.

    But returning to real estate, one of my rare predictions here was that one likely cause of a price decrease would be a pandemic–albeit one that killed off a significant percentage of the population.

    https://seattlebubble.com/blog/2016/05/18/no-seattle-affordability-not-pretty-much-game/

    See posts 11 and 36. Apparently a pandemic that doesn’t kill off a significant percentage has the opposite effect. But we’re not out of the woods yet. Cases are rising and more deadly variants are still possible, if not likely.

  73. 2323
    ruxpert says:

    RE: ruxpert @ 2290

    MELTDOWN – The Men Who Crashed The World
    https://tinyurl.com/yjtau7rr

  74. 2324
    ruxpert says:

    The ‘COVID Misinformation’ Train Wreck
    https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2021/07/the_covid_misinformation_train_wreck.html

    The US Government Threatens Tech Companies To Push Censorship Agendas
    https://caitlinjohnstone.substack.com/p/the-us-government-threatens-tech

  75. 2325
    Eastsider says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 2322:

    Israel isn’t that vaccinated, only about 60%. I’ve seen nothing indicating their break through rate is greater than ours, and apparently all you have is “unverified” data, probably from sources similar to that lawsuit which seemingly wants to somehow “protect” people largely not being forced to get vaccinated at the expense of people who want to become vaccinated.

    Israel is among the most vaccinated countries, more vaccinated than the U.S.. Over 85% of its adult population is vaccinated.

    As to breakthrough cases, Israel data shows vaccine efficacy rate dropping from 94% to 64% in one month. That data was from 2 weeks ago. The pharma provided efficacy data is not based on real world outcome, especially with Delta and future variants. Breakthrough cases are starting to pile up in many places outside Israel and UK. So be prepared.

    Cape Cod is weathering a surge in COVID cases at the height of tourism season — including many among vaccinated people
    https://www.bostonglobe.com/2021/07/20/metro/cape-cod-is-weathering-surge-covid-cases-height-tourism-season-including-many-among-vaccinated-people/

  76. 2326
    Eastsider says:

    CDC has not been transparent about vaccine adverse effects and deaths.

    Here is what it says about vaccine death on Monday 7/19 (from Internet Archive) –

    Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 334 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 12, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 6,079 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine.

    Here is what it says now –

    Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 338 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 12,313 reports of death (0.0036%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine.

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

    Note the number of deaths basically doubled within a day! I wonder if it is due to the whistleblower lawsuit I mentioned previously.

    Note the doubling of vaccine death rates from 0.0018% to 0.0036% between the two reports. Actually, even the higher 0.0036% is a lie. Most people received 2 doses. So the calculated death rate should double again to 0.0072%. The rate will rise further as more vaccinated people die due to the vaccines in coming weeks/months. And VAERS captures only a small part of actual events due to underreporting.

    The number of vaccine adverse events reported is over 400k. Actual adverse events is very likely to be in the millions.

  77. 2327
    uwp says:

    By Eastsider @ 2326:

    Note the number of deaths basically doubled within a day! I wonder if it is due to the whistleblower lawsuit I mentioned previously.

    Note the doubling of vaccine death rates from 0.0018% to 0.0036% between the two reports. Actually, even the higher 0.0036% is a lie. Most people received 2 doses. So the calculated death rate should double again to 0.0072%. The rate will rise further as more vaccinated people die due to the vaccines in coming weeks/months. And VAERS captures only a small part of actual events due to underreporting.

    Wow, you are dumb.

  78. 2328
    Voight-kampff says:

    I’ll always remember where I was on the day that Eastsider blew the lid off of the entire vaccine conspiracy. I’ll be able to tell my grandchildren,
    “I was there!”

    Also, I thought I would see more inventory added the week.

  79. 2329

    By Voight-kampff @ 2328:

    Also, I thought I would see more inventory added the week.

    I’m surprised the inventory is staying up where it is. I have a tracker that looks at new listings, pendings and solds for the prior 7 days. I haven’t noticed one time in the past week when the new listings were greater than either the pendings or solds, although I’m sure there must have been such a period.

  80. 2330
    don says:

    RE: Voight-kampff @ 2328

    He does need practice reading Scottish, though.

  81. 2331

    Someone needs to read this page, through the second section, to see what has been discovered to date regarding Covid-19 reactions (end of first section), and how events are submitted (second section).

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/vaers.html

    •Millions of people in the United States have received COVID-19 vaccines. Other than rare reports of severe allergic reactions, analysis of VAERS reports has not detected any patterns that would indicate a safety problem with COVID-19 vaccines.

    However, anyone can submit a report to VAERSexternal icon, including patients, family members, healthcare providers, and vaccine manufacturers, even if it isn’t clear if the vaccine caused the health problem.

    Returning to real estate, this is the reason I have not been taking occupied listings. I don’t want some grieving and/or greedy family member claiming something I did or didn’t do resulted in a death. It would be difficult for them to prove, but that doesn’t mean I want the risk. There’s more to it than that, but that’s the main part.

  82. 2332
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Eastsider @ 2326

    CDC updated the data again. Here is the current version –

    Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. More than 339 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 6,207 reports of death (0.0018%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine.

    https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html

    There were 10,991 Covid vaccine deaths reported in VAERS through July 9, 2021. This is public information.

    https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data

    I want to reiterate a couple points here. If you are old or have comorbidities, you should probably take the vaccine. Discuss it with your doctor. For children under 18 years old, WHO advises against mass vaccination.

  83. 2333

    By Eastsider @ 2332:

    For children under 18 years old, WHO advises against mass vaccination.

    They do not recommend against. Here is what they say.

    Children and adolescents tend to have milder disease compared to adults, so unless they are part of a group at higher risk of severe COVID-19, it is less urgent to vaccinate them than older people, those with chronic health conditions and health workers.

    More evidence is needed on the use of the different COVID-19 vaccines in children to be able to make general recommendations on vaccinating children against COVID-19.

    WHO’s Strategic Advisory Group of Experts (SAGE) has concluded that the Pfizer/BionTech vaccine is suitable for use by people aged 12 years and above. Children aged between 12 and 15 who are at high risk may be offered this vaccine alongside other priority groups for vaccination. Vaccine trials for children are ongoing and WHO will update its recommendations when the evidence or epidemiological situation warrants a change in policy.

    https://www.who.int/emergencies/diseases/novel-coronavirus-2019/covid-19-vaccines/advice

    Keep in mind WHO does not necessarily have the interests of the United States in mind. They think more globally, so between a teen here getting a vaccine or an older person elsewhere, they would pick the older person elsewhere. I’m not a big fan of the CDC, but I would listen to them over WHO.

    Finally note that one risk factor for children is family size. The larger the family, the greater the risk.

  84. 2334
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2333“between a teen here getting a vaccine or an older person elsewhere, they would pick the older person elsewhere.” You totally make this up. You won’t find any fact to support your claim. Stop nitpicking every word. The WHO does not recommend mass vaccination for children.

    I can see where this is going and I am not going to waste everyone’s time.

  85. 2335
    ruxpert says:

    ‘W.H.O. WHISTLEBLOWER CONNECTS THE DOTS’
    https://tinyurl.com/yxrj95um

  86. 2336
    Erik says:

    RE: Voight-kampff @ 2328RE: uwp @ 2327
    I’m glad someone else sees what I see. I’ve been trying to get Eastsider to understand the concept of buying real estate and renting it out for a very long time. Mentally he just can’t grasp it. Like Ardell was saying, maybe he is just a young boy who’s brain hasn’t fully developed yet? That would make a lot more sense than a stock market millionaire that owns his house free and clear in Redmond.

    That said, the software field has a lot of people that aren’t very smart that make a lot of money, so who knows. Maybe he Forest Gumped his way to financial success? A string of things happened to him based purely on luck made it so he is financially sound without understanding anything about investing.

    It goes to show you that literally anyone can do it.

  87. 2337

    By Eastsider @ 2334:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2333“between a teen here getting a vaccine or an older person elsewhere, they would pick the older person elsewhere.” You totally make this up. You won’t find any fact to support your claim.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-who/who-says-vaccine-hoarding-keeps-pandemic-burning-idUSKBN29Y2AL

    WHO’s interests are international. CDC’s interests national. Teens and family with teens should consider their own interests.

    Stop nitpicking every word. The WHO does not recommend mass vaccination for children.

    That is a correct statement, but that is not the statement I responded to. You falsely claimed that WHO recommended against vaccination.

  88. 2338

    By Erik @ 2336:

    I’m glad someone else sees what I see. I’ve been trying to get Eastsider to understand the concept of buying real estate and renting it out for a very long time. Mentally he just can’t grasp it.

    While generally I would agree with you, landlords have become a targeted class by politicians. For the small time landlord that makes being a landlord very risky because you can end up with a significant portion of your tenants not paying rent and not be able to do anything about it.

    In Seattle there is a seasonal eviction moratorium that has nothing at all to do with Covid-19, it was put in place before Covid-19 was even a thing. Because we all know Seattle is located in an area with bitter cold winters. /sarc That was the start. The new landlord-tenant laws about to go into effect are a continuation. Where we go from here is anyone’s guess.

    As I said earlier though, this should lead to higher rents for those who stay in the landlord business, because many are getting out, including a RE attorney I know who has many many rentals.

  89. 2339
    Eastsider says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 2337:

    Stop nitpicking every word. The WHO does not recommend mass vaccination for children.

    That is a correct statement, but that is not the statement I responded to. You falsely claimed that WHO recommended against vaccination.

    The following was the recommendation (‘against’) by WHO on 6/22 (Internet Archive). It quickly got updated to the present one. We can speculate who demanded the revision behind the scene. Many countries are not mandating vaccination for children after risk benefit analysis. The decision belongs to parents, not state.

    Children should not be vaccinated for the moment.

    There is not yet enough evidence on the use of vaccines against COVID-19 in children to make recommendations for children to be vaccinated against COVID-19. Children and adolescents tend to have milder disease compared to adults. However, children should continue to have the recommended childhood vaccines.

  90. 2340

    RE: Eastsider @ 2339RE: Eastsider @ 2339 – The change was likely due to the fact that earlier there were no studies on children. None were approved conditionally by the CDC either.

    The biggest vaccine issues right now related to breakthroughs with hospitalization and/or death, and whether one vaccine is more prevalent in such incidents. That might cause the CDC to recommend a different vaccine booster for some the elderly and/or conditions vaccinated with a certain vaccine.

    Also, locally I’m a bit concerned about how hospital rates are rising relatively quickly in this new wave. Usually that’s more of a lagging factor, but not this time.

    And as long as we’re talking about pandemics rather than real estate, I highly recommend this book on the Spanish Flu. I was reading it starting mid-March 2020 and found it an interesting history book. So much detail it almost reads like fiction, which probably part of it is due to the excess detail, but that makes it interesting.

    https://www.amazon.com/Great-Influenza-Deadliest-Pandemic-History-ebook/dp/B000OCXFWE/ref=sr_1_22?dchild=1&keywords=spanish flu&qid=1626966718&s=books&sr=1-22

  91. 2341
    N says:

    RE: Erik @ 2287

    You still haven’t obtained and read your CC&R’s 3 years later? What you are verbally told by a volunteer board or a management company doesn’t hold the same weight as what the cc&r’s say. Why involve an attorney when you haven’t read it yet and formed your own opinion on how solid your case may be.

  92. 2342
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2340 – The WHO updates Covid recommendation not very often. But when they updated their recommendation “Children should not be vaccinated for the moment.” around 6/21, it was immediately ‘revised’ the next day.

  93. 2343
    Eastsider says:

    RE: N @ 2341 – It was an amateur mistake. Anyone buying foreclosed properties is supposed to perform due diligence prior to auction.

  94. 2344

    RE: Eastsider @ 2343 – Lots of condos do have rental restrictions. There can be other issues that don’t show up in recorded documents. That’s why we order resale certificates before taking a listing live.

    Years ago we had a buyer make an offer on a condo and when the resale certificate came back it was a deal killer because not only was the HOA planning on repainting the exterior (something that was obvious), they were also planning on residing rather than making minor siding repairs to wood siding. And of course they were making that decision not having the money to do so and planning on borrowing the funds. Things like that are things listing agents should know. I really with they would change the law so that resale certificates were required to be obtained before listing.

    If the resale certificate is bad enough I’ve seen agents leave them inside the units so that buyers are aware what they are getting into before making an offer, rather than making an offer and then backing out.

    Buying at a foreclosure a buyer would be going in blind in most cases even if they’d managed to track down all the CCRs or even seen a title report.

  95. 2345

    A rare win for a landlord–Washington Supreme Court case holding that the CDC moratorium does not apply where the lease reached the end of term.

    https://www.courts.wa.gov/opinions/pdf/992495.pdf

    Note, constitutional issues were raised but not addressed, which could have lead to the favorable result. Courts avoid making constitutional rulings if the matter can be resolved in another manner.

  96. 2346
    uwp says:

    By Kary L. Krismer @ 2344:

    RE:
    I really with they would change the law so that resale certificates were required to be obtained before listing.

    If the resale certificate is bad enough I’ve seen agents leave them inside the units so that buyers are aware what they are getting into before making an offer, rather than making an offer and then backing out.

    Buying at a foreclosure a buyer would be going in blind in most cases even if they’d managed to track down all the CCRs or even seen a title report.

    I was under contract on a bank-owned condo in Greenwood back in 2013 that I backed out of after seeing the resale cert. They were going to do an assessment for re-siding, probably 10K+ per unit. I asked for 10k off and they declined.

    Obviously, I regret it in hindsight; it would have at least tripled in value by now and be cashflowing $600-700/mo… The start of my own Erik-like empire.

  97. 2347

    It’s too bad there are not vaccines approved for children under 12, and per this article that’s not likely to happen until mid-winter.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/564413-new-york-summer-camp-says-31-unvaccinated-campers-have-covid-19

    All of the [31] infected campers are under the age of 11. So far, none of the camp’s vaccinated campers, aged 12 and up, have returned a positive test. Only four campers who are of the appropriate age to be vaccinated have not done so, CNN reports.

    None of the camp’s 275 staff members have tested positive for the virus. Fewer than 10 are unvaccinated.

  98. 2348
  99. 2349
    Eastsider says:

    From Israel’s health ministry –

    Israeli study claims major drop in vaccine protection; experts don’t believe it
    Report says protection against serious COVID-19 illness fell to 80%, or 50% for over-60s;
    government adviser, physician and health statistics expert all criticize research

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-study-claims-major-drop-in-vaccine-protection-experts-dont-believe-it/

    “Most of us did not believe a month ago we could be in this situation.”

    Here is an interesting paragraph from Federal Register, 6/1/1984, Rules and Regulations 23007-

    …any possible doubts, whether or not well founded, about the safety of the vaccine cannot be allowed to exist in view of the need to assure that the vaccine will continue to be used to the maximum extent consistent with the nation’s public health objectives.

    https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/FR-1984-06-01/pdf/FR-1984-06-01.pdf

  100. 2350
    Eastsider says:

    Why is India no longer in the news?

    ‘Zero COVID’ catastrophe: participating nations see new records across the board
    https://dossier.substack.com/p/zero-covid-catastrophe-participating

    Btw, ”the government in Singapore wised up and decided last month to drop the idea of forever eliminating a minimally threatening endemic virus.” Singapore is a small city state with 6m population. (Singapore is 281sq mi, Hong Kong 427sq mi.)

    Singapore plans out transition to new normal life with Covid-19 pandemic
    https://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/singapore-plans-out-transition-to-new-normal-life-with-covid-19-pendemic-121062400135_1.html

  101. 2351

    Not a lot of real estate discussion here, so here’s a new topic.

    Some lenders want loan documents signed the day of closing. That’s a bit nerve-racking, but it’s also rather inconvenient for buyers because they only have a couple hour window in which they can sign during the morning of closing. Also, I’m not sure what happens if there’s a recording delay–will the lender accept the title company’s offer to treat it as recorded the day of release? Or will they require documents signed again the next day? Anyway, buyers with inflexible schedules should ask this of their lender when starting out because otherwise they’ll only find out about a week before closing.

    Also, buyers should ask their lender if their financing fails will the lender write a letter: (1) Stating the date of loan application; (2) That the buyer had sufficient funds; and (3) The reason financing could not be obtained. Not all lenders, particularly those not local, will write such a letter, and if they won’t then it may be difficult/impossible to get the buyer’s earnest money back, making the financing contingency pretty meaningless.

  102. 2352

    Covid-19 hospitalizations in Washington are really shooting up–see Epidemiological Curves tab. Not sure where, but it’s not King/Snohomish/Pierce. Cases are also going up, but not as fast a percentage rate.

    https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/COVID19/DataDashboard

  103. 2353
    Erik says:

    RE: N @ 2341
    I am not an attorney and I know that I don’t know. I’ve lost too much money by not hiring an attorney to have learned my lesson. When Kary says get an attorney, he’s completely right. You just gotta figure out how to do it without it costing an arm and a leg. And from what Kary said, the key to not overspending is finding an attorney familiar with your issue.

    I can give you specific examples, but that would be too much typing. Basically you hire attorneys when you are smart enough to know what you don’t know. They know all the tricks and loopholes and I don’t.

    I’m talking to an attorney that Kary kindly suggested may be familiar with my issue. So far he seems awesome and I’ll keep you posted. He’s gonna send me an engagement letter. I asked about how much this will cost and he said probably around $1500, which is well worth it if I can win. I’ll give you his name if it all works out and I get his permission. I used Bruce Fine before and he was awesome, but unfortunately he retired. Bruce would send one nice respectful letter to my hoa asking a few questions and I would win. It was amazing. I would fight the hoa for months and get nothing but stressed out. Bruce just typed the words right and I’d win. Don’t spend your time stressing out. If you are smart, you’ll just get an attorney and move on.

  104. 2354
    Azucar_80127 says:

    By Erik @ 2247:

    RE: Azucar_80127 @ 2240
    Which question? You asked more than 1. Are other countries in on the hoax? I don’t know because it’s a hoax dum dum. In a hoax the answers are hidden. China was definitley in on the hoax. The virus came from China and China shut down travel within their country right away. That’s why the virus didn’t spread in their country, not because of masks like fake news will tell you. China knew what they were doing and wanted orange man out because we was taking money from China.

    If you ask more questions, I won’t answer. I know plenty of brainwashed liberals and there is no point trying to reason with them. Fake news got to you first.

    If you want to talk about something constructive relating to real estate, let’s talk. If you want to fight about your political opinion, I would rather politely excuse myself from the conversation.

    Why are the 2020 Olympics being held in 2021, and why are there no spectators?

    Even if it was a “democrat originated hoax” as you’ve claimed, what would be the benefit of not having spectators pay for tickets to watch? I guess you won’t answer, but it’s something to think about.

  105. 2355
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Azucar_80127 @ 2354 – Every organization/country can set its own rules. If you follow Euro 2020, you won’t know there is a pandemic.

    How many lives were lost due to the reckless organizers?

    Do you see any spectator wearing a mask in the photos?

    Covid is not going to kill most of us, vaccinated or not. Just chill.

    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/07/11/sports/england-italy-score-euro-final

  106. 2356
    ARDELL DellaLoggia says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2351

    I’m used to those because it’s always been the standard way to sign and close in PA, NJ and most all Title Theory vs Lien Theory States. They do closings every hour without Recording day of closing. All parties go at the same time to “the settlement”. Buyer signs, seller hands over the keys, everything done in one hour with everyone all in the same room.

    Generally speaking, table-funded, same day signings aren’t expecting it to Record same day by the lender. Used to take a month and no one cared. :)

    I ran into a few of those here 10 or more years ago, like Pentagon Federal Credit Union. I walked escrow through them and since there weren’t many, it wasn’t something they couldn’t handle.

    With one hour table closings a seller could sell his house at 9 a.m. and buy his new house at 10 a.m.. The moving truck just went from one house to the other on the same day.

    If there are too many here or everyone isn’t aware enough to ask early on, it could be a problem. I haven’t had a problem yet, likely because I’m used to them.

    The lender funds used to arrive before the loan papers were signed. Then we’d fax the loan papers to the lender, they would quickly ok them and we’d exchange keys and presents and sometimes there was champagne. :) Closings used to be fun. Don’t fear it. The adjustment could turn closings into a party. :)

  107. 2357
    Eastsider says:

    It looks like a booster shot is coming…. You read it here first.

    Vaccine 39% effective at halting virus transmission, 91% against serious illness, Israel’s health ministry says
    https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/coronavirus/1626980447-vaccine-39-effective-at-halting-virus-transmission-91-against-serious-illness-israel-s-health-ministry-says

    The report has also reflected the decreasing potency of the vaccination, showing a mere 16 percent effectiveness against transmission among those vaccinated in January, compared to 44 percent of those vaccinated in February, 67 percent of those who received their shots in March, and 75 percent for those vaccinated in April.

  108. 2358
    Azucar_80127 says:

    By Eastsider @ 2355:

    RE: Azucar_80127 @ 2354 – Every organization/country can set its own rules. If you follow Euro 2020, you won’t know there is a pandemic.

    How many lives were lost due to the reckless organizers?

    Do you see any spectator wearing a mask in the photos?

    Covid is not going to kill most of us, vaccinated or not. Just chill.

    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/07/11/sports/england-italy-score-euro-final

    That article is behind a paywall that I don’t subscribe to, so I was only able to see the photo for a few seconds before it was covered up… but the spectators were so out of focus in the cover image that it’s impossible to tell how many were wearing masks.

    I do acknowledge that a lot of spectators at the Euro 2020 matches weren’t wearing masks, but that wasn’t my point.

    My point was that the entire Olympics was delayed for a year, and is now going on with no spectators allowed, because of the pandemic. And the election is over, so there’s no way that it will influence the US 2020 election. I want to know how Erik reconciles that with his theory that the virus is a hoax that was created by democrats to affect the election. It seems to be a pretty simple question.

  109. 2359
    Erik says:

    RE: uwp @ 2346
    Don’t look back and beat yourself up. That’s the worst thing you can do. Move forward and start buying. If there is a big recession, the government will bail you out. It’s always a good time to buy if you know how to play.

  110. 2360
    Erik says:

    RE: Azucar_80127 @ 2354
    Sugar, you are attracted to me like a moth to a flame. I know you are attracted to me because you keep engaging me in conversation even though we disagree. I’m a grounded, logical, centered, reasonable man. You are a spicy Latina that follows her emotions.

    I’m not going to battle you on specifics, but this whole thing wreaks of corruption. I’d recommend taking advantage of the programs federal government offers. If you have an fha mortgage and miss 3 months of payments, you can reduce your payment a minimum of 25% with no documentation required. If I didn’t want to buy more real estate, I’d consider doing a strategic default. Get in the game and take the benefits offered.

  111. 2361
    Erik says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2338
    I can see how starting out with not much money would be more stressful right now. Established landlords with equity and cash can weather the storm. There are always reasons to not get started in rental real estate. The fact is that rental real estate is still the fastest and easiest path to wealth in my opinion.

    During the eviction moratorium, landlords could take mortgage forbearance, so landlords that had tenants not paying could survive. My tenants all paid through the eviction moratorium and it was business as usual. I offer nice rentals and treat tenants well. As a result, everyone paid and it was business as usual. I also have a rockstar leasing agent, which helps.

  112. 2362

    RE: ARDELL DellaLoggia @ 2356 – Second time in two days I was brought back to a memory from law school (your lien theory/title theory comment).

    The concern I have had in the past about table funding is that there will be a glitch. Maybe the notary will miss a signature or initial, for example. In the most recent case I ran into this that would have probably been the only thing that could have messed things up because the lender had wired the funds to escrow the day before, and the docs had been provided even earlier (but not allowed to be signed).

    Now though we have also have the issue of recording delays, where docs are released to record but do not record. I try to avoid that by not closing on a Friday or last day of the month, something which has seemingly helped. I’m not sure how a lender wanting signatures the day of closing would deal with that delay.

    As to the recording delays, title companies generally offer to deal with that by offering gap insurance if released to record but it fails to record, but there are problems with that. Our forms could be, but are not, written in a way that allows that. That means the parties need to be advised to consult an attorney, and good luck with that after 5:00 p.m. And there are good reasons for giving such advice.

    What happens if the closing date was supposed to be Thursday, ends up as Friday and the house burns down on Friday at 2:00 a.m.? I can tell you what happens. Both the buyer’s insurer and the seller’s insurer will deny coverage, pointing at the other, assuming the seller hadn’t cancelled their coverage, in which case the buyer’s insurer will simply deny coverage. And the buyer’s insurer will have a very good argument, making the situation very bad if the seller did cancel coverage. But either way a legal mess that takes years to sort out may have been created.

    Basically I don’t trust insurance companies because I’ve seen them deny coverage for completely bogus reasons. In one case the insurance company had lost an appeal at the Washington Supreme Court level on the exact same issue, was given a copy of that decision and still denied coverage. They lost on summary judgment, which was one of the most pleasing moments of my legal career.

    Title companies effectively always do offer gap insurance, because they insure against a last minute judgment or other interest that might pop up at the last minute before recording. But here I think they are taking on an entirely different risk, and I’m not sure they actually cover the parties for that risk because they don’t cover physical hazards. Their risk is likely to the new lender who will rightly say the contract did not call for such a transfer of ownership and their funds should not have been released. Maybe (probably?) the escrow’s agreement with the lender covers that, I’ve never actually seen such an agreement, that I’ve noticed.

    Personally I think the state wide forms should be amended to deal with delayed recording. That would take care of all my concerns. Both the buyer and seller would have agreed to that, and the lender having had reviewed the purchase and sale agreement would have consented. I suspect the non-escrow state forms already do that. We should too.

  113. 2363

    By Erik @ 2361:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2338
    I can see how starting out with not much money would be more stressful right now. Established landlords with equity and cash can weather the storm. There are always reasons to not get started in rental real estate. The fact is that rental real estate is still the fastest and easiest path to wealth in my opinion.

    During the eviction moratorium, landlords could take mortgage forbearance, so landlords that had tenants not paying could survive. My tenants all paid through the eviction moratorium and it was business as usual..

    First let me say that most the small landlords I have spoken to have had good results with their tenants.

    Mortgage forbearance though is not a solution, it is a partial band-aid. First it doesn’t apply to all lenders. Second it doesn’t apply to all moratoriums (e.g. the ongoing and repeating Seattle moratorium). Third I’m not sure it won’t result in credit being dinged. But finally, and most important, it’s not like the landlord is certain or even likely to be able to recover the rent owed once the moratorium is over.

    This really is no different than what I’ve said for years. If you have one bad tenant and ten rentals that bad tenant is a PITA. If you have one bad tenant and only two rentals that bad tenant is a disaster.

  114. 2364

    By Erik @ 2359:

    RE: uwp @ 2346
    Don’t look back and beat yourself up. That’s the worst thing you can do. Move forward and start buying. If there is a big recession, the government will bail you out.

    The government will bail you out, until they can’t. Until the system collapses. At that point it might not matter what you’ve done.

    I like to think of the economy as a machine created by humans. It doesn’t just somehow exist. At first the economy was all manual. A caveman would give another caveman wood in exchange for food. Then the concept of money was developed and soon thereafter banks and lenders. Rules were developed that people understood when using those things. Then came fictional entities, corporations and such, and then the trading of ownership of those entities. More made up rules. Around the same time, central banks. More rules. Then options and derivatives, etc. All of these things are a great fiction created by and existing through various rules. And sometimes fact patterns develop where the rules don’t work so well, and the system malfunctions. The malfunctions can be disasterous–e.g. hyperinflation. Being a human created system, malfunctions cannot be assumed away.

  115. 2365
    ARDELL DellaLoggia says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2362

    I still tell sellers not to cancel anything before closing. Day after closing is soon enough. As to insurance, zero reason to cancel that in advance since you can cancel after and provide the closing statement and they will pro-rate to day of actual closing.

    Day after acceptance, compare lenders and choose one (per our previous conversation). Day after closing, cancel insurance and change utilities.

    No need to jump the gun. Seller who cancels insurance before closing is at risk always. Wait until it closes for Pete’s sake.

  116. 2366

    RE: ARDELL DellaLoggia @ 2365 – I just had that exact discussion with a seller this week. Wait until recording numbers to call utilities, wait until the day after to cancel insurance.

    I suspect cancelation is effective at midnight in any event, but what concerns me is the 9:00 p.m. possession language in the purchase and sale agreement. I don’t think that effects insurable interest, but I could see an insurance company claiming it did even where actual possession was turned over earlier.

    And yeah, you’re probably right on them prorating insurance in any event. So no reason to rush the cancellation.

  117. 2367
    Erik says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2363
    Perhaps landlords should take mortgage forbearance now so they have enough reserves if something bad does happen to them? Landlords gotta take what is being offered to them.

    If you had 10 houses with federally backed mortgages in Seattle at $2000/mo rent and you took the 18 months of mortgage forbearance that any landlord with federally backed mortgages could have took, how much reserves would they have?

    10 x 18 x $2000 = $360,000

    That’s how much reserve cash a landlord could have to weather the storm assuming they had zero equity.

    I believe a renter not making his/her payments wouldn’t be a big deal for a landlord that took mortgage forbearance. That said, I’m on the landlord side and I want rules that benefit landlords. I’m just showing you that landlords that take mortgage forbearance can afford a little renter pain if they had to.

  118. 2368
    Erik says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2364
    I completely agree, that’s why I love real estate. You are trading another caveman shelter and he’s compensating you for it monthly. You could argue that it’s more real than gold.

    I don’t like ETF’s and all that garbage. I invest in the companies I believe in and real estate. When it all crashes, it’s best to be closest to reality. Last recession, the government bailed out landlords and I would imagine they will do it again next major recession. I was reading a book on real estate and they made the point that our government encourages people to be landlords through tax breaks and bailouts. The US government wants more rental units for people that are content working for money their entire lives like Eastsider. Our system wants affordable housing for workers and they need more supply to make rental housing more affordable.

  119. 2369

    RE: Erik @ 2368 – I would add that Section 8 increases the demand for rentals, thereby raising rents and benefiting landlords at the expense of tenants who are not Section 8.

    It’s similar to how student loans increases the demand for college, and what people can afford to pay, thereby driving up tuition to the benefit of the school and the detriment of students not getting loans. Now some Dems want to forgive $50,000 of student loan debt, which would totally screw over those who have already paid their student loan debt, but it would also seemingly disrupt the ongoing student loan program. How can you possibly have a student loan program where $50,000 of debt gets forgiven? Maybe that’s their goal–since the student loan program is evil, but at this point it would totally disrupt the economics of colleges and universities.

  120. 2370
    ARDELL DellaLoggia says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2366

    It’s always been the case in Title Theory States, especially those that use attorneys for closings. The West Coast just has to catch up a bit. :) It will work out.. with a few modifications.

  121. 2371

    By Erik @ 2367:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2363
    Perhaps landlords should take mortgage forbearance now so they have enough reserves if something bad does happen to them? Landlords gotta take what is being offered to them.

    I’m not aware that anything is being offered to landlords other than a deferral/moratorium. So if you incur $20,000 of interest and HOA dues while your tenant doesn’t pay $30,000, you’re going to be out $20,000 if you cannot ever collect anything from the tenant. Maybe not a concern if the tenant not paying rent is making $150,000 a year at Amazon, but for many tenants collection would be a problem.

    Restaurants and airlines were the industries that got a lot of government benefits.

  122. 2372

    By ARDELL DellaLoggia @ 2370:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2366

    It’s always been the case in Title Theory States, especially those that use attorneys for closings. The West Coast just has to catch up a bit. :) It will work out.. with a few modifications.

    As far as catching up, it’s probably only Washington state on the “closing date” definition. Other states may have better language. I’m actually surprised the forms have not been changed given all the other market related changes that have been made (e.g. 22A, 35E, etc.)

    If you’re talking about doing away with escrow I would disagree. Non-escrow systems seem incredibly inconvenient due to scheduling issues and location issues, although with remote notary systems maybe that wouldn’t be such an issue today.

  123. 2373
    Erik says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2369
    Government intervention ends in a boom and bust cycle. The more the government interferes with the free market the bigger boom and bust.

  124. 2374
    Eastsider says:

    This is getting extreme. You could be required to take multiple booster shots annually if you are vaccinated. And the Delta variant apparently has the same mortality as flu, especially for young and healthy people.

    6. Is this a one-time mandate or will I be required to get boosters or annual shots?

    This is a permanent policy. Infectious disease experts anticipate that annual or more frequent
    boosters will be necessary, and receipt of boosters will be required, consistent with product
    labeling, in the same way that the initial vaccination is required by this policy and subject to the same exceptions and deferrals.

    https://ucnet.universityofcalifornia.edu/coronavirus/student-covid-vaccine-policy-faqs.pdf

  125. 2375
    don says:

    RE: Eastsider @ 2374

    “subject to the allowable exceptions (on medical, disability, or religious grounds) or deferral (based on pregnancy).”

    Easy… pick religion!

  126. 2376
    Mikal says:

    It is mostly republicans that are unwilling to take the vaccine. Let them. The party was already slowly dying out as there are less and less old white people. This will just hurry it up.

  127. 2377
    Erik says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2371
    Landlords with federally backed mortgages basically got to pull equity out of their homes with no finance fees. We can surely agree on that.

  128. 2378
    S-Crow says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2351 – Kary mentions: “Some lenders want loan documents signed the day of closing. That’s a bit nerve-racking, but it’s also rather inconvenient for buyers because they only have a couple hour window in which they can sign during the morning of closing. Also, I’m not sure what happens if there’s a recording delay–will the lender accept the title company’s offer to treat it as recorded the day of release? Or will they require documents signed again the next day? ”

    Yes. They are beyond nerve wracking. Unfortunately, some lenders “doc drawers/lender closers” are clueless when it comes to what has to take place behind the scenes on same day fundings/recordings. And yes, it is totally inconvenient for a buyer to be waiting for escrow to get CORRECT docs in hand. Don’t forget that when a lender says “docs are out docs are out!” many times they are NOT at Escrow, sometimes HOURS later. Escrow will tell clients when docs are in. We’ve had clients just show up in our office and say that their loan officer said docs are at escrow only to have to inform them their information is incorrect. In addition, I cannot count how many times when we get docs in whether it is a week ahead or same day fund/close that the docs are wrong. It is why when presented with lender transaction management problems and they cannot get their acts together I will talk with the recording dept of the Title Co and collaborate to have us (our escrow co) actually manually record the documents in person at the county. We stand in line with the public. At the time, it was a ROYAL pain in the ass for us but it is faster than the Title Co can do it (because they have bulk excise affidavits that are reviewed by county staff so you have wait and wait) and more likely to close on time. Most agents when explained what we have to do to accommodate same day fund/record pretty much still think we push a button and it’s magic.

    We hired a former funder as an escrow assistant from First Horizon back in the day. Once in the saddle escrow work pretty much flushed her out and she left within about 3 weeks.

    I actually had a LO attend a same day funding and I signed the clients in Everett. LO didn’t realize that the Notary (me) was also the owner of the Escrow co. Said some flippant “escrow delay BS” and I just introduced myself and said I was the owner and explained to the clients what the delay was all about. She pretty much stayed quiet the rest of the meeting. The clients later called my wife and apologized and said it was a tough loan process with the LO from the get go. Fortunately, not all LO’s and agents are asses. Most try to do as good a job as their experience allows.

  129. 2379
    Blurtman says:

    RE: Mikal @ 2376 – Yes, because most blacks and Spanish Indians (Hispanics) are Republican.

  130. 2380
    Mikal says:

    RE: Blurtman @ 2379 – That may be, but overall over 80 percent of democrats have been vaccinated and less than 50 percent of republicans have been and fewer people are getting it now. It’s the dumb.

  131. 2381

    RE: Mikal @ 2380 – “I see the traffic come back and I selfishly wish more people had died from Covid.”

    https://youtu.be/znI046F4FKg?t=211

    The entire video might be on-topic, but this is linked to that time.

  132. 2382

    And on the topic of Covid humor, a Canadian press conference (NSFW).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRwDM3sOJys&ab_channel=22Minutes

  133. 2383

    And finally, this was back when Canadians envied the US healthcare system because they didn’t have any vaccine.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwyglrEViMU&ab_channel=22Minutes

  134. 2384

    RE: S-Crow @ 2378 – I worry about closing on time even when the lender has all the docs days before and all we need to do is get funds wired and released to record.

  135. 2385
    ruxpert says:

    July 20 2021
    Dr. David Martin Just Ended Covid, Fauci, DOJ And Politicians by Stew Peters Show
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/WCV5ZkFF8k4e/

    Stew & David point out the misinformation provided by the ‘Covid Official Story’ providers/defenders,
    and how they/such have Killed People.

    Now consider Biden’s confession:

    When asked by the press for his thoughts on companies like Facebook, President Biden said
    the failure of those platforms to adequately censor posts about the vaccine makes them
    guilty of “killing people”.
    https://caitlinjohnstone.substack.com/p/the-us-government-threatens-tech

  136. 2386
    Blurtman says:

    RE: Mikal @ 2380 – You don’t have to declare a party affiliation when you get vaccinated, and so we have those remarkably accurate polls to provide estimates.

    “The poll shows that a majority of Republicans — 55 percent — say they have already gotten a shot or plan to do so, a big uptick from 46 percent in March. That’s compared to 79 percent of Democrats and 59 percent of independents. Perhaps more importantly, the percentage of Republicans who will “definitely not” get the vaccine is shrinking as well: Just 20 percent of them say they will definitely not get vaccinated, down from 29 percent in April.”

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/05/republicans-more-eager-for-vaccine-kaiser-family-foundation.html

  137. 2387
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Mikal @ 2380 – Which group of people are most hesitant about the experimental jab? According to the CDC, they are the under 40 group. Fortunately they are not dying. Sorry to disappoint you.

    There is a Reddit group that has a lot of horror stories from these young people. Makes you wonder…

    https://www.reddit.com/r/CovidVaccinated/

  138. 2388
    ruxpert says:

    Respecting The Power Of The Housing Demand Wave
    Housing Notes by Jonathan Miller
    July 23, 2021
    https://www.millersamuel.com/note/july-23-2021/

  139. 2389
    ruxpert says:

    Property Watch: A West Seattle Home Adjoins the Sea / Views
    https://tinyurl.com/58wb5uhn

    Listing Fast Facts:

    8427 Beach Drive SW
    Size: 2,400 square feet/0.58 acres, 3 bedroom/2 bath
    List Date: 7/16/2021
    List Price: $1,725,000

    ===/
    ‘A Seattle Real Estate Agent Tells All’
    https://tinyurl.com/55vc5xxr

  140. 2390

    By Eastsider @ 2387:

    RE: Mikal @ 2380 – Which group of people are most hesitant about the experimental jab? According to the CDC, they are the under 40 group. Fortunately they are not dying. Sorry to disappoint you.

    I don’t have stats for under 40, but 49 and under make up 5% of the deaths and almost 30% of the hospitalizations in Washington. They make up over 70% of the cases, which makes me wonder what percentage of the “long-haulers” are 49 or under.

    https://www.doh.wa.gov/Emergencies/COVID19/DataDashboard

    34 and under makes up almost 50% of the cases, probably because they falsely think they aren’t likely to be affected.

  141. 2391
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2390 – CDC data is here, with a nice chart too. For children under 18 years old, flu is more deadly than Covid, by far. Now consider the insanity of compulsory vaccination on this group with an experimental vaccine that has high rate of severe adverse effects.

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

  142. 2392
    Erik says:

    RE: ruxpert @ 2389
    I bought a condo on beach drive for $300k in 2015 and sold it for $630k in 2019. I wish I could keep them all, but I don’t like to be that leveraged.

    If I could live anywhere in the Puget sound it would be in a house on beach drive or a house on the water in Fauntleroy. Great area that deserves more appreciation in my opinion. In a perfect world, I’d own (10) 4br houses on beach drive and rent them out.

  143. 2393

    By Eastsider @ 2391:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2390 – CDC data is here, with a nice chart too. For children under 18 years old, flu is more deadly than Covid, by far. Now consider the insanity of compulsory vaccination on this group with an experimental vaccine that has high rate of fictional severe adverse effects.

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/covid_weekly/index.htm

    Fixed your post.

    What you seem to fail to realize is that children can convey Covid (especially in multi-generational households) and that like unfortunately the vast majority of people in third world countries can allow Covid to mutate into other variations. Also, I’m not sure whether or not children can be long-termers, another huge concern with Covid-19.

    Until studies are completed on the vaccines in children any claims of side effects are just made up.

  144. 2394

    The US is up over 100,000 new cases for the first time in a long time, and also the number 1 country for new cases. Until just over a week ago we hadn’t been even 4th or 5th for quite some time. Brazil is also shooting up again, over 100,000.

    https://youtu.be/PBShizujH58?t=33

    Part of this may be related to 4th of July activities.

  145. 2395
    Blurtman says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2393 – The gene therapy vaccines are not sterilizing, and so even the vaccinated can be carriers. The benefit of the gene therapies is that they lower hospitalization and death rates, which are very rare in healthy populations in general. And these are repurposed gene therapy technology, according to the inventor of mRNA vaccines, which failed in their intended application – replacing faulty proteins with functional proteins. The immune system of the faulty protein carriers recognized the implanted normal proteins as foreign, and mounted an immune response against them, Turning lemons into lemonade – mRNA vaccines.

    A real risk of the very specific spike protein binding domain mRNA gene therapies is encouraging the outgrowth of resistant strains due to the evolutionary pressure placed upon the virus. As your natural immune system takes on all comers, including the minor mutants, there is no such selective pressure to encourage their outgrowth.

  146. 2396

    RE: Blurtman @ 2395 – Is that really a concern where the non-nRNA vaccines have a lower effective rate? Stated differently, I think you’re going to get infections in either group and such infections can mutate in either group. Also I don’t know that it’s clear that whatever the body’s natural reaction would be if unvaccinated would not occur simultaneously along side the vaccine related reaction in either group.

  147. 2397

    Is this false reporting? I find it really hard to believe that some 98% of cases in Washington this year have been in the non-vaccinated. I suspect that’s a statistic for a week rather than since mid-January.

    In Washington between Jan. 17 and June 26, people who were unvaccinated made up:

    ▪ About 98.5 percent of people who got COVID-19.

    ▪ About 97.9 percent of people hospitalized because of COVID-19.

    https://www.thenewstribune.com/news/coronavirus/article252987163.html

    Vaccines were only started in December and only available to people under 65 starting in late March, early April. Plus there was a significant wave of cases at the turn of the year.

    Or maybe it’s just a meaningless statistic, given 100% of cases between March 2020 and November 2020 were in the unvaccinated (ignoring those in testing programs), and that huge surge at the turn of the year when most people were unvaccinated.

  148. 2398
    Blurtman says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2396 – I did not post anything about where the mRNA gene therapies have a lower efective rate, but yes, it is a serious concern, so much so, that the CDC is monitoring hospitalizations and deaths in these breakthrough infections in the vaccinated.

    Your thinking about the mutation rate in the vaccinated versus unvaccinated is merely an hypothesis and I would challenge you to back it up with science.

    Your innate immune system is composed of cells, like NK cells, and IgM antibodies. Both are not exquisitely specific, but are on guard against first exposure pathogens. If not for your innate immune system, we would not be walking the planet. This also explains why unvaccinated healthy people don’t succumb to the virus.

    Vaccination creates an adaptive immune response to the vaccine immmunogen. In case of the mRNA vaccines, to a small piece of a viral protein. Your innate immune system is then hijacked, as NK cells are directed by the exquisitely specific anti-spike protein antibodies to which the NK cells bind.

    One source: pro-vaccine MD, DVM scientist Geert vanden Bossche.

    A second equally credible source regarding SARS-CoV-2 risk/demographics: Dr. John Ionides, Professor of Medicine, Stanford University: https://use-p2.lbryplayer.xyz/api/v4/streams/tc/excellent-presentation-by-professor-john/d8c020b435763a68e71dffabaf27fb5558843706/af8bb8d4738e2bfd68d6623fd97db868672a64df133aaef75058e832628cb3def1d4cc602fb38d8669c23cf03cb2e2cf/master.m3u8

    Quit listening to CNN.

  149. 2399

    RE: Blurtman @ 2398 – Thank you. FYI I don’t listen to CNN. Maybe you forget I really don’t think much of the press.

    As to what I said being a hypothesis, you’re absolutely right. I don’t think there is any evidence either way right now. Remember that early on they were advising us to use alcohol on surfaces, be wary of delivered boxes and masks were not recommended. My position is they are still figuring things out and haven’t been able to look at everything yet. My big concern since the start of this has been mutations, in part because reading that book about the Spanish Flu it apparently had some rather deadly mutations as time went on. Clearly mutations are quite frequent in the unvaccinated–time will tell for the vaccinated.

  150. 2400
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Eastsider @ 2357 – Now the WH confirms that you will likely need regular booster shots. The current vaccines are failing, i.e. they are not protecting you from serious illness, if you need to take them every few months. Are vaccine sick days now part of employee benefit?

    Biden officials now expect that vulnerable Americans are likely to need booster shots.
    https://www.nytimes.com/live/2021/07/24/world/covid-delta-variant-vaccine

    As research continues into how long coronavirus vaccines remain effective, Biden administration health officials increasingly think that vulnerable populations will need booster shots.

    Dr. Anthony S. Fauci, who heads the infectious disease division of the National Institutes of Health, said the apparent steep falloff in the Pfizer vaccine’s effectiveness against infection in the Israeli data had epidemiologists “raising their eyebrows a bit.”

  151. 2401
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2393 – That is a lot of misinformation.

    As of July 16, according to VAERS, there were a total of 491,217 reports, including
    11,405 deaths
    36,117 hospitalizations
    62,339 urgent care visits
    85,635 office visits
    3,243 anaphylaxis
    3,313 bell’s palsy
    1,172 miscarriages
    4,381 heart attacks
    2,833 myocarditis/pericarditis
    11,221 disabled
    3,314 thrombocytopenia/low platelet
    10,224 life threatening
    20,958 severe allergic reactions
    5,813 tinnitus

    This is multiple order of magnitude in adverse events compared to *all* other vaccines combined in the reporting system.

    https://www.openvaers.com/covid-data

  152. 2402

    RE: Eastsider @ 2401 – Apparently you missed the post where VAERS is explained. Those are not verified reports. Those are not necessarily even reports from medical professionals. Given that the reports doubled in about a week based on your prior posts, most the reports are probably from random anti-vaccine people who maybe are just submitting false reports to fulfill an agenda.

  153. 2403
    Blurtman says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2399 – . 47:11 – Weisntein pops the Kary question. vanden Bossche’s reply: Flu pandemic 1918. No vaccines at that time. Archived samples show no variants.

    The whole thing is worth a listen.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNyAovuUxro

  154. 2404
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2402 – You are making an unsupported claim that vast majority of VAERS reports are bogus. Who’s spreading misinformation here?

    This is on the very first page of VAERS report –

    Warning: Knowingly filing a false VAERS report with the intent to mislead the Department of Health and Human Services is a violation of Federal law (18 U.S. Code § 1001) punishable by fine and imprisonment.

    https://vaers.hhs.gov/esub/index.jsp

  155. 2405

    RE: Eastsider @ 2404 – Apparently you’re not familiar with modern society if you don’t think people would submit false reports, notwithstanding penalties. If your logic prevailed then there would be no gun crimes, purchase or otherwise, because there are criminal penalties. In Seattle you can do virtually anything short of murder without being prosecuted.

  156. 2406

    RE: Blurtman @ 2403 – I’ll watch when I get a chance, but I was basing my comments on how it acted differently–it became very quick acting for a time. Healthy one day, dead the next. But reporting back then is rather suspect, in part because systems became overwhelmed.

  157. 2407
    Voight-kampff says:

    Everyone take a deep breath (with a mask on of course, lol ;-)
    Remember, science is not truth. Science is a system for seeking the truth. When science changes it’s opinion, it didn’t lie to you. It learned more.
    I almost forgot to say something about Real Estate. I follow downtown core condos pretty close, most have lost several years of appreciation.

  158. 2408
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2405 – Based on your logic, you shouldn’t believe any vaccine claim by big pharma too –

    Big Pharma’s Big Fines
    https://projects.propublica.org/graphics/bigpharma

    This was from 2014. There have been major scandals since then. You are making multiple baseless claims without evidence.

  159. 2409
    ruxpert says:

    RE: Erik @ 2392

    My friend lives in W.Seattle. Not on Beach Drive, albeit in general vicinity, high on hill/Sweet Views.
    He ‘throws’ some nice dinner parties there. ;-)

    btw, do you have any opinions on Blue Ridge &/or Richmond Beach/Highlands ?

  160. 2410
    ruxpert says:

    RE: ruxpert @ 2385

    Biden Gaffe Renews Questions About COVID Transparency
    https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2021/07/23/biden_gaffe_renews_questions_about_covid_transparency_146132.html

    President Biden so desperately wants the vaccine-hesitant part of the country to get their shots that he may have spread a little misinformation.

    “You are not going to get COVID,” he promised during a CNN town-event Wednesday night, “if you have these vaccines.”

  161. 2411

    RE: ruxpert @ 2410 – I’m actually surprised he hasn’t had more gaffes on more topics. He was known for them even back when he was VP. He needs a portable teleprompter and a shock collar for if he ever goes off script.

  162. 2412
    ruxpert says:

    RE: ruxpert @ 2410

    Chief Scientific Advisor Sir Patrick Vallance has issued a retraction on twitter after asserting during an official UK government press conference that 60% of current covid related hospitalizations in the UK are double vaccinated.

    The retraction comes…

    Chief Scientific Advisor Sir Patrick Vallance’s extraordinary claim about the double vaccinated
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/4633fFyeZ1nY/
    July 20th, 2021

    LMULLINS:
    “What does anyone expect. This is a managed psyop.”

  163. 2413
    ruxpert says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2411

    Sky News:
    Joe Biden ‘has to be taken out of circulation’ after ‘rambling about men on the moon’
    https://youtu.be/JLVNYNEXr_c

  164. 2414
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Eastsider @ 2401 – European Union’s database of suspected drug reaction reports, EudraVigilance, also contain reports of adverse reactions (hundreds of thousands) and deaths (thousands) on the Pfizer vaccine alone.

  165. 2415
    Mikal says:

    By ruxpert @ 2412:

    RE: ruxpert @ 2410

    Chief Scientific Advisor Sir Patrick Vallance has issued a retraction on twitter after asserting during an official UK government press conference that 60% of current covid related hospitalizations in the UK are double vaccinated.

    The retraction comes…

    Chief Scientific Advisor Sir Patrick Vallance’s extraordinary claim about the double vaccinated
    https://www.bitchute.com/video/4633fFyeZ1nY/
    July 20th, 2021

    LMULLINS:
    “What does anyone expect. This is a managed psyop.”

    Please don’t get vaccinated. What’s laughable is the states republicans are losing in presidential elections by 10000 votes is about to increase a bit. It’s the dumb.

  166. 2416
    ruxpert says:

    RE: Mikal @ 2415

    Are we not yet tired of being duped by the Fear-Ops?

    I saw something nasty in the woodshed
    https://youtu.be/UYd9I5i1_Ps

    Let’s Stop DyingForDistractions!

    The DemoRub March of Tyranny
    https://tinyurl.com/2c8bpwvz

    Escape The Divisive DemoRub Distraction/Trap!
    Unite Together Against The Corruption Cancer ;-)

  167. 2417
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Eastsider @ 2400 – Australia has secured 85 million Pfizer vaccines as booster shots that will start next year for a population of 26 million. Assuming 80% vaccination rate or 21m, this is enough boosters for every vaccinated person every 3 months! This is just for the Pfizer vaccine alone.

    Australia secures 85 million Pfizer vaccines as booster shots
    https://7news.com.au/lifestyle/health-wellbeing/australia-secures-85-million-pfizer-vaccines-as-booster-shots-c-3498693

    Now consider your risk, based on the following research paper, and taking into account your age, health and comorbidity, potential adverse vaccine events, and treatment/prophylactic (which reduces risk further by perhaps 90%+), you have a lot to consider. Good luck!

    Assessing the age specificity of infection fatality rates for COVID-19: systematic review, meta-analysis, and public policy implications
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33289900/

    Our analysis finds a exponential relationship between age and IFR (infection fatality rate) for COVID-19. The estimated age-specific IFR is very low for children and younger adults (e.g., 0.002% at age 10 and 0.01% at age 25) but increases progressively to 0.4% at age 55, 1.4% at age 65, 4.6% at age 75, and 15% at age 85.

  168. 2418

    RE: Eastsider @ 2417 – I’m not sure where you get your data. It’s common knowledge Australia has a very low vaccination rate. Only 13% fully vaccinated and 18% with one dose, with just about 12M doses total.

    https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations?country=AUS

    They better worry a lot more about initial doses before they start thinking about booster shots.

  169. 2419

    This is behind a paywall, but what little you can see without a subscription gives an idea.

    https://www.economist.com/asia/2021/07/24/australias-covid-19-strategy-is-being-tested

  170. 2420

    By Mikal @ 2415:

    Please don’t get vaccinated. What’s laughable is the states republicans are losing in presidential elections by 10000 votes is about to increase a bit. It’s the dumb.

    After watching the last two Presidential elections, and being more familiar than most with some of the things going on in other countries, I’ve come to the conclusion that those seeking power (politicians/dictators) by and large (almost universally) are really not very capable people. Good government probably depends more on the underlings than the leader, because the leader is likely incompetent (e.g. any mayor of Seattle in the past 25 years). Unfortunately we get situations like George W. Bush who relied too much on washed up people his father used (e.g. Rumsfeld) , or Trump who relied almost exclusively on people he merely knew from having had minimal prior contact with (e.g. Ben Carson). At least W and Obama got rid of some people who proved incompetent (e.g. Rahm Emanuel). Trump only got rid of people if they dared say something he didn’t like.

    Unfortunately we have an election system where candidates are picked by name familiarity (Trump, Hillary, Biden) and we really know little about who will back them if elected. It’s amazing anything good ever happens.

    But by and large humans accept this. Not that many years ago humans accepted as great their leader whose only qualification is they were the eldest born son of their prior leader and the leader before that.

  171. 2421
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2418 – The 85m Pfizer vaccine order was for delivery next year. They will have ramped up vaccination rate by year end.

  172. 2422
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2419 – Economist has gone CNN in recent years LOL. Even CNN in early days was a respectable outlet.

  173. 2423

    By Eastsider @ 2422:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2419 – Economist has gone CNN in recent years LOL. Even CNN in early days was a respectable outlet.

    Not sure why you say that. A lot of The Economist is opinion pieces, but even their opinion pieces are not as biased as CNN’s news or opinion programming.

  174. 2424
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2423 – Here is from The Atlantic in 2013 (Pre-Trump LOL) –

    Should We Trust Economists?
    They’re fractious, frequently wrong, and have lost much of the public’s faith.
    https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/06/should-we-trust-economists/276497/

    Okay, I grant that they recognized it somewhat just four weeks ago –
    Trust in the media has increased in the past year
    In countries other than America, that is
    https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2021/06/28/trust-in-the-media-has-increased-in-the-past-year

  175. 2425
    Blurtman says:

    – Goldman-Sachs is telling their clients that a “strong demand for housing looks sustainable. Even before the pandemic, demographic tailwinds and historically low mortgage rates had pushed demand to high levels. Consumer surveys indicate that household buying intentions are now the highest in 20 years.” –

    And when Goldman-Sachs talks, people listen.

  176. 2426
    Blurtman says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2420 – A Thunderdome type contest would be better. Two candidates enter, one candidate leaves.

  177. 2427
    Eastsider says:

    This should end the Covid vaccine mandate discussion. Period.

    Biden administration not mandating COVID vaccines for White House staff, Psaki says
    https://granthshala.com/biden-administration-not-mandating-covid-vaccines-for-white-house-staff-psaki-says/

  178. 2428
    Eastsider says:

    By Blurtman @ 2425:

    And when Goldman-Sachs talks, people listen.

    Yes, many have profited handsomely from betting against what GS states publicly. ;)

  179. 2429
    Blurtman says:

    RE: Eastsider @ 2428 – Yes, I can’t predict future home price movements. Best one can do is hedge, in the case where you will sell an existing property and buy a new one. Try to keep the transactions as close to each other as possible. Selling and sitting on the cash takes you out of the market, and unable to profit from continued appreciation. If the market tanks, assuming the property you are to sell tanks in synchrony with the property you are to buy, it’s a wash. As cash buyers rule, take out a bridge loan on your security portfolio to buy the new property, and pay it off when you sell your current property. Keep a cash cushion in case the market tanks and your broker wants you to make up the difference, in order to prevent him from selling off your securities.

  180. 2430
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Blurtman @ 2429 – There is also an option to do 1031 exchange into a REIT. Not popular yet but more landlords may be interested in this going forward.

    You Can 1031 Exchange Into A REIT, Here’s How
    https://www.realized1031.com/blog/rolling-from-property-to-reit

  181. 2431
    Voight-kampff says:

    RE: Blurtman @ 2426

    Great idea. Currently fuel and water may be too too plentiful for thunderdome elections.
    Soon though.

  182. 2432
    ruxpert says:

    RE: ruxpert @ 2416

    somebody posted:
    July 22, 2021
    French Protestors Burning the Rothschild Bank in Paris. Well it seems the people in France have had enough with the BS. Apart from them burning everything they could, they have finally turned towards the actual enemies. I don’t expect it will be long before the guillotines and nooses come out. I’d say watch for the French Revolution Revision 2.0. I do expect it will be contagious and if the bought and paid for morons that pretend to run our governments keep up their s**t I think it’s going to get very very bad for them. I have already offered to build the gallows, buy the rope and pull the lever hundreds of times for free, as my civic duty ;-)
    from: https://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread1291049/pg1

    The French are smart! They know who the enemy is! The international banksters! With the Rothchilds, the head of the snake!

  183. 2433
    ARDELL DellaLoggia says:

    RE: Eastsider @ 2430

    REITS are poison. Just say no to REITS. Same as bond funds in that regard. When things go sideways they start churning and bury themselves in a hole.

  184. 2434
    Eastsider says:

    RE: ARDELL DellaLoggia @ 2433 – Schwab U.S. REIT ETF (SCHH) has a respectable 8% annualized return in the past decade. (Not sure if it qualifies for 1031 xchg though.)

  185. 2435
    ruxpert says:

    RE: ruxpert @ 2432

    Protesters Rage Across Europe As Lockdown, Vaccination Mandates Begin
    https://www.zerohedge.com/political/thousands-join-anti-lockdown-protests-australia-amid-new-restrictions

  186. 2436
    ARDELL DellaLoggia says:

    RE: Eastsider @ 2434

    It does, but I’ve seen them drop to next to nothing. I don’t trust them.

  187. 2437
    Eastsider says:

    RE: ARDELL DellaLoggia @ 2436 – Yes, individual REITs are riskier. But REIT ETFs do not drop to zero.

  188. 2438
    ARDELL DellaLoggia says:

    RE: Eastsider @ 2437

    Fifty cents. I’m older than you. It’s why you didn’t see them for a long time. The lawsuits were in the 70s or early 80s. 70s I think.

  189. 2439
    Eastsider says:

    RE: ARDELL DellaLoggia @ 2438 – Individual REITs are like individual stocks. They can go bust. But not indexed ETFs.

  190. 2440
    David says:

    I just sold my 2020 Tacoma to Carmax for more than I paid for it. I I bought the Taco to move a boat and because I was pretty sure a truck would have value when battery tech replaces the gas engine.

    I put the money into Goldman Sachs stock.

    I just found out a Tesla battery pack is $16k to replace after warranty runs out.

    So now I am hoping to just subscribe to the Tesla ride hailing service if that comes out in the next 2 years.

    I assume I would no longer need my garage and I’d just have a house-frunk.

    RE: Erik @ 2368

  191. 2441
    Seah says:

    Ardell , why aren’t reits good investments ? You don’t own the property but it’s managed by managers and guarantes dividends.

    How’s July housing look ? Is it cooling off ?

    Are you still bearish on the stock market ?
    Opposite of everybody , I like the stock market . It goes up and you can average down if falls .

    RE: ARDELL DellaLoggia @ 2438

  192. 2442
    Erik says:

    RE: Seah @ 2441
    You can’t buy a REIT, pull all of the money out of your investment and buy another REIT. When the real estate market crashes, you won’t get bailed out by the US government with REIT’s. You can’t put down 5% of the money and the bank loans you the other 95% while a renter makes your payments for you with REIT’s. You can’t wait for your REIT’s to double in value, sell half your REIT’s, and live off the cash flow.

    Real estate is how people get wealthy because of leverage and velocity of money. Get your 10 with federally backed mortgages, then sit back and wait until they double in value. Sell 5 and live off the cash flow. You want a passive income stream that goes up in value without touching the principal and that’s what real estate investing is all about.

  193. 2443
    Erik says:

    RE: David @ 2440
    That’s great you made money on the deal. I just buy reasonable deals and drive them into the ground.

    My last truck went to over 400k miles. I think I paid $4500 plus my trade in. I bought it with 30k miles and got some good use out of it. I had kids and needed something they could ride in.

    I bought a 2013 Toyota Camry in 2018 with 167k miles on her for $7500. I’m planning to drive her to over 500k miles. Tesla is the future, but yah, $15k for a battery is more than I’m willing to spend on a car. If my battery went out, I’d tie a brick to the accelerator and dump it in lake ponchetrain so I can collect the insurance money. I’m not willing to put that much money into something as simple as transportation.

  194. 2444
    Eastsider says:

    If you are over 70 and vaccinated, you might want to discuss booster shot with your healthcare provider.

    HMO: Early vaccinees are twice as likely to catch COVID as later recipients
    Latest research ‘definitely’ reinforces argument for giving boosters to the elderly, says lab chief at Leumit
    https://www.timesofisrael.com/hmo-those-who-inoculated-early-twice-as-likely-to-catch-covid-as-later-adopters/

    Data released by the Health Ministry on Thursday suggested that people vaccinated in January were said to have just 16% protection against infection now, while in those vaccinated in April the effectiveness was at 75%.

    “Now we see vaccination effectiveness drops, so it seems we definitely need to think about a third vaccine,” he said. “We have started already by giving the immunocompromised, but in my assessment we need to consider giving third shots to everyone over 70 or 80. We shouldn’t wait long; we need to make a decision fast.”

    If he were formulating policy, Shenhar said, he would “definitely” start giving boosters to elderly Israelis.

  195. 2445
    Kary L. Krismer says:

    RE: Eastsider @ 2424 – I was referring to the magazine, not economists in general. On the topic of economists, the worst are those associated with real estate entities.

  196. 2446
    ARDELL DellaLoggia says:

    RE: Eastsider @ 2439

    I’m pretty sure those, ETFs, don’t satisfy the 1031 requirements. Not 100% sure. They are not true REITs and outside my frame of reference.

    I once had a man who converted a large real estate portfolio to REITs. His children were worried, but he was getting too old to supervise them. Had 12 to 15; mostly in Seattle. But with his substantial gains over a long lifetime, converting to REITs vs buying into REITs with fresh cash, a bit different.

  197. 2447
    ARDELL DellaLoggia says:

    RE: Seah @ 2441

    The guaranteed dividend makes the problem worse.

    I’m on vacation until 8/3. This is the worst time of year to read the tea leaves. If the DOW can sustain 35,000+ … I called it a Dead Cat Bounce about a week ago, but it’s more of a live cat bounce so far.

    Will know better in a few days but, it’s always hard to separate seasonal from sustained between August 1 and Jan 15. It depends on the backlog of buyers that accumulates in increasing numbers during that time.

  198. 2448
    ARDELL Della Loggia says:

    I don’t want to go down the COVID black hole with you, but many have learned much. The most notable is having a year’s worth of cash reserve in case…I e. The Country gets shut down.

    The FOMO of having emergency funds was pretty strong by 2020. People didn’t retain enough and didn’t want to sell off investments. Cash position is important and feeling like cash and liquid investments is a missed opportunity is wrong thinking. $10,000 in an emergency fund is clearly not nearly enough. Investment money is money you can afford to lose.

  199. 2449
    Eastsider says:

    RE: ARDELL DellaLoggia @ 2446 – Yes, one way to get out of rental investment is to do a 1031 exchange into REIT. If it is getting difficult to be a landlord, this is one tax advantaged option to consider. Not sure if ETF qualifies.

  200. 2450
    Eastsider says:

    RE: Kary L. Krismer @ 2445 – My mistake. Here is someone’s take on The Economist. This is clearly subjective though.

    What went wrong with The Economist?
    https://www.spectator.com.au/2017/01/went-wrong-economist/

  201. 2451
    ruxpert says:

    ???
    Since REIT investments are securities, they don’t meet the requirements as a replacement property for a typical 1031 exchange. Real property is a tangible asset.Apr 16, 2021
    https://www.millionacres.com/taxes/1031-exchanges/is-a-1031-exchange-into-reit-shares-possible/

    You Can 1031 Exchange Into A REIT, Here’s How
    David Wieland on Jun 24, 2020
    https://www.realized1031.com/blog/rolling-from-property-to-reit

  202. 2452

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